The deatheater to never return...

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The deatheater to never return...

Postby *Lily* » Sunday 18 July 2004 8:16:11am

From JKR's interview in March:
HarriFreak: Who is the 'one that never will return' deatheater? JK Rowling replies -> You have to work it out, but a lot of fansites have got it right.

Is the Deatheater Karkarof?
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Postby harrylover » Sunday 18 July 2004 11:20:01am

Could be true, yes...or maybe snape...
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Postby Gower » Sunday 18 July 2004 11:23:05am

Surely Snape...? Karkaroff is the one who will be punished for being too cowardly...?
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Postby Athena Appleton » Sunday 18 July 2004 9:37:28pm

First, welcome to b&o Lily! :welcome:

Okay, well, I have my own theory on this, and no one seems to agree with me.

Okay, I'm losing my memory... there were three. The coward, the one at Hogwarts, and the one gone forever (the latter will be killed).

I haven't completely sorted this out, but I can't help but look at Professor Sinistra (just seems a little too close to "sinister" if you ask me) with anything less than suspicion.

Snape is the coward. Instead of coming to his Lord's side immediately, he saved his own skin by staying behind and (probably) showing up at a more "convinient" time. If this is the case, I believe that after some relatively small punishment (as in, not killing) Snape was let back into Voldemort's good graces, paving the way for him to be able to be a spy again.
Karkaroff is the one who will never return and will be killed, once again, not that suprising considering his actions in GoF.
The one who is at Hogwarts is Sinistra. Until the book series is over, or we get some definate black and white evidence that there's not another Death Eater wandering the halls of Hogwarts, I think this is the most likely scenario.
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Postby hoopsmaster88 » Sunday 18 July 2004 11:59:01pm

if both sinistra and crouch jr. were at hogwarts why would voldemort only mention that one of his death eater's was there? you're right about sinistra though very little has been said about her or her background.
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Postby Athena Appleton » Monday 19 July 2004 1:05:24am

Yeah, this is where the weird part that no one agrees with comes in:

I don't think Crouch/Moody is a Death Eater, per say.

While there's no denying that at the time of GoF, he was a very faithful, possibly the most faithful, servant of Lord Voldemort, I think when he was put in Azkaban, he was not a Death Eater.

Here's how I think things happened (and I've double checked it before, but it's been a while, so if you know that one of my theories is absolutely wrong, as opposed to you just don't believe it, please let me know so I don't sound retarded :grin: ):

Barty Crouch, Jr., at some point before Neville's parents were tortured, got curious about the dark arts, the Death Eaters and Voldemort. What happened with the Longbottoms was most likely a first-time offense for Crouch, possibly it was an induction sort of thing, or he was more or less "trying it out" with some of the more well-known followers of Voldemort.

When Crouch was caught, however, he took advantage of the thought that it might not be too late: he wasn't "branded" as a Death Eater, so even if he was caught red-handed, he would say that he was forced to, it was his first time, he never meant it, etc. and hope that Daddy would get him out of trouble.

I don't think Crouch Jr. bargained for what happened next: Crouch Sr., so infatuated with his power, and so preoccupied with his image, used his own son as an example, putting Junior in Azkaban along with several other "official" Death Eaters.

The anger he fostered in Azkaban, and the time he spent with other Death Eaters, probably made him more determined than ever to turn against his father and become a loyal servant of Voldemort. Even though he never "offically" became a Death Eater (didn't have the Dark Mark, etc.) he wasn't mentioned in Voldemort's greeting speech in the graveyard. Therefore, the three spaces in question could go to Snape, Karkaroff, and (a twist!) an unknown Death Eater in Hogwarts. Voldemort's talent in dealing in secrecy would come in handy in this situation, he probably is betting on everyone there assuming something else is happening, and he (Voldemort) is the only one aware of the third person in Hogwart's halls.
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Postby Athena Appleton » Monday 19 July 2004 1:20:02am

Sorry bout the double post, but...

Keep in mind, too, that in OotP, Lupin tells Molly Weasley that the Order was outnumbered, I think, four to one during the height of Voldemort's power. When Moody's showing Harry the photograph of the original Order members, he names off 21 or 22 members (I get confused on whether or not Fabian Prewett, Gideon's brother, was actually in the Order, or just with his brother when he was attacked.) Which would mean, even if Lupin wasn't talking about a mathmatical certainty, that there were probably at least fifty or so, probably more, Death Eaters in Voldemort's prime. According to The Ultimate Unofficial Guide to the Mysteries of Harry Potter by Galadriel Waters, the best guess I've heard so far is that there were somewhere between 25-30 Death Eaters in the circle. This would mean that there were probably Death Eaters around who were not, for some reason, invited to join this little ressurection party, leaving the possibilities open... We don't know who all the Death Eaters are, and we don't know who was missing from that group, if there was another group, or who's died, who's turned, and who's involved.
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Postby Deedra Malfoy » Monday 19 July 2004 6:30:15pm

I like that book.

I think it's Karkaroff who left forever. I'm not sure on Snape. i think he's lying to DD. Wish it weren't so, but...

Stopping here.
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Postby *Lily* » Monday 19 July 2004 7:49:58pm

If Professor Sinistra was a deatheater wouldn't JKR have made her charecter more imporant?
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Postby Gower » Monday 19 July 2004 8:08:50pm

Intetresting theory Athena. But I think that the Moody/Crouch was that faithful death eater. In Gof, Voldemort said that it was through the efforts of his most faithful death eater that Harry was with them in the graveyard. And it was definitely Moody/Crouch who setup Harry taking the portkey and arriving in the graveyard. Sinistra doesn't seem to have done anything :)
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Postby *Lily* » Tuesday 20 July 2004 6:57:51am

That's the detail I was trying to remember!! I knew there was a reason that Crouch Jr was definately the Deatheater @ hogwarts I just couldn't think what it was. I really think Sinistra is just a name. It doesn't mean she's sinister.
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Postby Athena Appleton » Tuesday 20 July 2004 8:53:36am

:lol: Yeah, told ya nobody ever agrees with me on this one. :-)

I think, though, that we shouldn't rule anything out at this time, because it's not beyond Rowling to take a seemingly completely unimportant character and turn them into something more (Sirius... Mrs. Figg...), so just because we haven't heard much about Professor Sinistra doesn't mean that something won't be revealed later.

I admit, my theory is probably a little farfetched. :-) But I like it, and I'm stickin with it! :lol:

Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire American version, page 643 wrote:"How any will be brave enough to return when they feel it?" [Voldemort] whispered, his gleaming red eyes fixed upon the stars. "And how many will be foolish enough to stay away?"


This, along with what is said about how none of the Death Eaters know all the other Death Eaters, Voldemort works in secrecy, and what Lupin says in OotP about how the Order was outnumbered, tells me that the Death Eaters in the circle that night were by no means all the Death Eaters. So that leaves open the possibility that other (more or less important) characters are/were Death Eaters, too. Including, possibly, Professor Sinistra. Almost every name is a hint to what that character is like, or what will become of that character. I have to think there's something to Sinistra's name, as well.

At any rate, I don't believe that Voldemort knows Snape is a spy... I haven't ruled out the possibility that Snape is actually a spy for Voldemort, and not the Order, but I actually lean more towards him being a spy for the Order. If this is true, and Voldemort knows this, I think he might have let Snape live for a while, but in OotP, so many of his plans were thwarted by the Order, I don't think he would have knowingly kept someone around who was responsible for the Order finding out as much as they did about his plans.
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Postby Gower » Tuesday 20 July 2004 11:43:31am

Well here's what they do to find out who is a deatheater. They make every teacher in the school touch Harry and if that person feels great pain as Quirrel did in the first book then you know that he/she is a deatheater :grin:
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Postby Gypsy » Tuesday 20 July 2004 3:20:55pm

Athena, as far as the significance of Professor Sinistra's name goes, doesn't sinistra mean 'left' in Italian or something? I don't see how that would be relevant to her personality, but it's just a thought.
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Postby Athena Appleton » Tuesday 20 July 2004 4:06:00pm

Gower wrote:Well here's what they do to find out who is a deatheater. They make every teacher in the school touch Harry and if that person feels great pain as Quirrel did in the first book then you know that he/she is a deatheater :grin:


Now that's just silly. You know the reason Quirrell wasn't able to touch Harry is no longer a valid reason (Voldemort can touch Harry now). :lol:

Gypsy wrote:Athena, as far as the significance of Professor Sinistra's name goes, doesn't sinistra mean 'left' in Italian or something? I don't see how that would be relevant to her personality, but it's just a thought.


ehhh... *shrug* the only words I know in Italian are ravioli, spaghetti and lasagna... :lol:

I'm not saying I'm definately right about this... however, even if I'm WAY off on the Sinistra-or-other-Death-Eater-at-Hogwarts bit, and the faithful Death Eater at Hogwarts is indeed Crouch Jr., I think Snape is the coward and Karkaroff is the one to never return... which would explain why Snape has been able to be a spy since Voldemort's return - he got a quick punishment and then rejoined the Death Eaters, supposedly. When Karkaroff publicly denounced Voldemort, and turned over a lot of fellow Death Eaters, he pretty publicly made it clear that he wouldn't ever return. The fact that he didn't show up in the graveyard that night only proved this.
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