Harry, Neville and The Dementor

[Alice I]

When the dementors come near Harry he hears the last moments of his parents lives as they die trying to save him.
Even though he was only a year old he still has these memories buried deep in his heart so the dementors are able to lay them bare when they suck the joy from him.
Because of this horrible experience he passes out when the dementors come near where his classmates feel horrible but they do not pass out.

Neville is the same age as Harry and as a baby one would assume that one or both of his parents were with him all of the time. I have yet to hear reference to babysitting in the books. (at least not in the wizarding world)
Neville has a very poor memory much the same as Bertha Jorkins did after a strong memory charm was placed on her.
Though it is not proven or stated by JKR most people believe that Neville was present at his parents torture and a memory charm put on him so he wouldn't talk.

Neville does not pass out when the dementors come near him. Is that because of this hypothetical memory charm? Is this proof that a memory charm was indeed placed on Neville?

The torture of his parents into insanity is just as horrible to a one year old child as the quick death of Harry's parents by the Avada Kedavra curse. Actually due to the nature of torture I think that Neville's experience was far worse than Harry's yet even when the dementors suck away Neville's joy he is not left with that memory as Harry is.

Now we know that a memory charm can be broken, as is proven by Voldemort, but I also suspect that due to the nature of Legemency that there are other ways to extract memories as well. So how powerful is the effect of a dementor? if Neville were in the presence of one long enough would the memory of his parents torture surface to torment him?

What are your thoughts on this?

[pandora315]

If that is Nevilles wort memory I guess it would affect him that way. But even though there is evidence for it, we don't know that Neville had a memory charm put on him, and even if he did, we don't know what exactly for. Its possbile that he saw his parents being tortured, but I think that only possibile if he himself were tortured at the same time. AS with many others things, its all really just a guess and we'll have to wait to find out the truth.

[han lin]

neville himself could have reppressed the memory deeply as well as it being under a memory charm. it may add more power to the charm if he doesnt want the memory? if he doesnt want to remember anything about it?

[paintballdecoy]

I really don't think Neville was with his parents when they were tortured. They, most likely, were working for the order. I really doubt they had Neville with them, becuase if something bad could happen, they wouldn't want him around

[Gower]

Indeed, Neville wouldn't actually remember seeing his parents being tortured, only being told the news which is a bad memory but certainly not as bad as Harry seeing his parents being murdered.

[Athena Appleton]

Okay, I do think Neville was on the receiving end of a memory charm gone horribly wrong.

That aside, though, I think you're making a few assumptions that would effect the answer to your question....

Did Neville even see his parents being tortured? I don't think so. I doubt a kind woman like Bellatrix Lestrange would have tortured the parents to insanity and left the baby in the playpen across the room. If she had wanted to truly torture Frank and Alice Longbottom, and Neville were around, I would imagine she'd have some fun with the baby before ever touching them.

Whoever said that possibly thinking "I don't want to think about that memory" would mean that the Dementors couldn't bring it up, I completely disagree. That's what Dementors do, they remind you of your worst memories, usually to the point that you lose your mind. Don't you think that at some point, every prisoner that was subjected to the Dementors would be thinking "I really don't want to think about this, I really don't want to be thinking about this," hoping that would mean that the Dementors couldn't make them relive it?

[Gower]

I don't think that's what repression is. Neville may have repressed the memory a long time ago up to the point where he barely even remembers it happens. If he barely remembers, then the dementors couldn't use it against him.
I agree that he can't have been present hile his parents were being tortured. Belatrix wouldn't have left him alone if he had been there.

[Alice I]

Okay, I do think Neville was on the receiving end of a memory charm gone horribly wrong.

Ok then for what reason would he have had this memory charm put on him and by whom.
I would think that after his parents incapacitation he went immediatly to live with Gran and I seriously doubt that that woman would let anyone near the child, so;
When, Who and Why?

The main reason that I think he may have been present at the tourture is because that would explain the memory charm.

Now I do agree that Bellitrix would have definatly wanted to torture the baby.
Perhaps she didn't because she was ordered not to.
Perhaps she did torture Neville only she was stopped by one of the others for reasons as yet unknown.
These are of course all just possibilities but I can not come up with another reason for the memory charm that I strongly believe was placed on him.

[Athena Appleton]

I see three possibilities as to why Neville would have had a memory charm put on him as a child.

1.) He was, in fact, tortured alongside his parents, but for a shorter length of time.

2.) He saw the torturings, but somehow, Bellatrix and Co. didn't see him (possible Invisibility Cloak, later saw it in a pensieve, I don't know other options)

3.) Some other unknown reason that will unfold in the next two books. We know we're only just beginning to find out what there is to know about Neville... maybe, horrible as his parents' torture was, there's something even worse in his life...

Even though we know more about his past than, say, Seamus Finnigan, we still know very little about what this kid has gone through.

If he barely remembers, then the dementors couldn't use it against him.

Harry remembered nothing about his past before he faced the Dementors.

[Alice I]

I see three possibilities as to why Neville would have had a memory charm put on him as a child.

1.) He was, in fact, tortured alongside his parents, but for a shorter length of time.

yep that goes along with what I said:

Perhaps she did torture Neville only she was stopped by one of the others for reasons as yet unknown.

2.) He saw the torturings, but somehow, Bellatrix and Co. didn't see him (possible Invisibility Cloak, later saw it in a pensieve, I don't know other options)

This is a good idea I had not thought of that.

3.) Some other unknown reason that will unfold in the next two books. We know we're only just beginning to find out what there is to know about Neville... maybe, horrible as his parents' torture was, there's something even worse in his life...

I guess that brings me back to my origional question. Shouldn't Neville's reaction to the Dementors be similar to Harry's?

If he barely remembers, then the dementors couldn't use it against him.

Harry remembered nothing about his past before he faced the Dementors.

And this brings me back to my question about Dementors laying bare your worst memories. If Neville were in the presence of the Dementors long enough could their effect disrupt the memory charm that we both agree was placed on him at some point in his childhood?

I just had a thought:
Do you think it is possible that Neville's Gran recovered him from his parents side, tourtured and all and put the memory charm on him so that he would forget what had happened?
It is just a thought and it could be a very unexpected twist.

[Gower]

If he barely remembers, then the dementors couldn't use it against him.

Harry remembered nothing about his past before he faced the Dementors.

Harry had some brief memories of a flash of green light and Voldemort's laugh.

Are you saying that Neville had a memory charm put on him that went wrong? It must have got wrong if he can't remember himself being tortured but can remember his parents being tortured. Maybe the malfunctioning charm is why he has such a poor memory.

[choki]

Are you two seriously NOT JK Rowling?

Excellent "debate" going on.

But here is my view.

The Longbottoms have something different that separates them with the Potters - Lord Voldemort wanted the Potters dead, since there is no mentioning of him wanting the Longbottoms dead as well, otherwise Neville won't have survived. The Potters went into hiding but Frank and Alice still remained working for the Order. I doubt they were being tortured at home where Neville was. His parents were most probably caught by Bellatrix and co. outside. I cannot remember entirely but were Neville's parents tortured after or before Lord Voldemort met his downfall at the Potters?

[Gower]

They were tortured after Voldemort met his downfall.

[Groo]

i dont think that Neville had any memory charm put on him. his poor memory is just a fact that he has to live with.

i think most of the arguments made are possible, though i cant imagine Neville's Granny put a memory charm on a small infant.
I agree with Alice that if all that is true, then Neville's reaction should be the same

[Athena Appleton]

Are you saying that Neville had a memory charm put on him that went wrong? It must have got wrong if he can't remember himself being tortured but can remember his parents being tortured.

I don't know that I really think Neville actually saw his parents being tortured... at least at the time they were tortured. The only reason I really assume that he did, in fact, see his parents tortured is his reaction during the DADA class in GoF, but he could be having that reaction even just knowing what happened to his parents... Particularly if that was the first time since their torture (or his) that he'd seen the Cruciatus Curse used.

I definately think that something about Neville's poor memory will be used in the next books, either revealing something about his past (like this) or it will seriously affect the outcome of some plan in the future (he forgets to do something important).

The fact that Bertha Jorkins was not a forgetful person before having the major memory charms put on her, and afterwards was well-known for being forgetful, makes me wonder about other people who have serious memory problems. Which is why I do think Neville had a memory charm performed on him at some time.

I still don't know, though, if he was tortured himself, he saw the torturings without being seen, or if there was something terrible in his past even worse than that that would justify putting a memory charm on him. But I definately think there was a charm put on him.

though i cant imagine Neville's Granny put a memory charm on a small infant.

What if he wasn't a small infant at the time? What if Gran saw the torturings and he discovered it in a pensieve when he was nine years old?

I guess that brings me back to my origional question. Shouldn't Neville's reaction to the Dementors be similar to Harry's?

I don't know... maybe he's come to grips with it... maybe the memory charm was that powerful... *shrug*

If Neville were in the presence of the Dementors long enough could their effect disrupt the memory charm that we both agree was placed on him at some point in his childhood?

There is absolutely no way of knowing this. It's not mentioned in any of the books. If we had some solid evidence that yes, Neville had a memory charm put on him, then we could get an answer to this, but since we've never seen what happens to someone who has had a memory charm put on them (for sure) when they have an encounter with a Dementor, then there's no way of knowing.

Ahhh, the annoying part of building theories on top of theories.