the order & da

[Jotomicron]

I don't think we've seen all the death eaters, by far...

Yeah, I know... I said it was a list of all DE, but I meant of all DE whose name has been already mentioned.

We haven't probably seen all the members of order too,but anyway,there aren't much of the Death Eaters,or the ones close to LV actually.When Voldie returned on cementery he have called all of his Death Eaters and I think there was only 20-30 of them counting the empty spaces!And they might have been outnumbered 4 to 1 but it doesn't say that all of them was DE-s.They probably had some ppl that are not DE-s on their side too!Like the order,they have only about 25 members and a lot of suportors,who fight for good...

Yeah, but anyway, remember, the last time, the Order was outnumbered 4 to 1, and with the photo Moody showed Harry, we learn that there were 20 people (yes... I counted them) in the Order... which means approximately 80 DE... and 30 in the greyvyard... what about the other 50???

[Athena Appleton]

I don't think all the Death Eaters were called to Voldemort's little graveyard party... I think those were just the supervisor Death Eaters (I'm mixing analogies here)...

I compare Voldemort, the Death Eaters, and his supporters to the Nazi party in Hitler's Germany... There was Hitler (Voldemort), his top supporters (Amon Goeth, Hiemlich Hemmler, I know I'm butchering these names), and then several other layers of supporters, ranking in importance. Karkaroff says that even the Death Eaters themselves didn't know who all the other Death Eaters were, and I believe him on that, because it makes good sense. If each of the Death Eaters know all the other Death Eaters, it would be too easy to get the names of all of them and therefore shut down his operation for good. So if only the top Death Eaters were at the graveyard (minus the three), then that means there are many others under them...

There are two instances I can think of that make me think not all the Death Eaters were called by Voldemort on the night he returned.

1. At the time of Barty Crouch, Jr.'s trial, there was apparently some question as to whether he was truly a Death Eater. If all Death Eaters had the Death Mark on their arm, it would be very very easy to tell if he was a Death Eater for sure.

2. Along the same lines, Sirius Black was taken to Azkaban without a trial, because everyone "knew" he was a Death Eater. However, he had no Death Mark. So they must have "known" there were Death Eaters out there without the Death Mark, or else SOMEONE might have questioned the events around Sirius's arrest and conviction without a trial.

[Jotomicron]

Do people in general know about the Dark Mark? I always thought it was only known by the Death Eaters themselves... and Crouch, because he didn't know that, never used that information to accuse or save people from Azkaban

[Athena Appleton]

that's a good point... Fudge apparently didn't know about it, since Snape showed him his mark to prove that Voldemort was back... hmmm...

'kay, maybe strike what I said earlier...

I do still think there are many levels of Death Eaters, and only the top-ranking ones were at the graveyard that night, though

[pinky p]

i think pretty much everyone knows what the dark mark is, (remember the pandamonium it caused at the quidditch world cup?) but yes, probably not very many people know about the dark mark tattoo death eaters get...

with sirius, however, i think they were just so anxious to blame someone and get them in jail, i don't think they even bothered about the dark mark... he never got a proper trial, so why would they bother about something like that? i suppose it makes sense that the death eaters that are spies don't have dark marks... it would be so easy to see if someone was just wearing a t-shirt or something of the sort.

[AngelicS_89]

I do still think there are many levels of Death Eaters, and only the top-ranking ones were at the graveyard that night, though

I think that the DE-s are only the ones who were on graveyard,They're the closest to LV and others are just followers of LV,I mean,not everone knows and has the mark-tatoo,only the DE-s,and just think if there were 80 or more DE-s you could easily inflate a spy and ppl would know more about them.And if there were so many DE-s there would be no chance that The Order would won even though the LV is gone,cause there is so many of them and they're suposed to be great wizards and they can use unforgivable curse,etc...And I think that LV taught DE-s Dark Arts,like Harry the DA members.Just think if LV taught 80 of them???I mean how big fool do you have to be to do that???

modified by Athena Appleton to correct major spelling errors[/i]

[Athena Appleton]

I tried to correct as much as I could... didn't know if you meant they could inflate a spy, though... *shrug*

I don't think Voldy taught all the Death Eaters... Remember what Sirius said about Snape, how he was so almost obsessed with learning Dark Arts, even in Hogwarts... Voldy obviously didn't teach Snape dark arts in Hogwarts, or before it, but he was talented in Dark Arts before becoming a wizard who was of age, or before becoming a death eater.

When Voldy returned in the graveyard, he respectfully left spots in the circle uninhabited to save the spots of other certain Death Eaters who were either killed or not there because they were at Hogwarts or Azkaban... If there aren't other Death Eaters besides the ones Voldy called to his side with the Dark Mark, Lupin was lying when he said they were outnumbered 4 to 1, since even with the empty spots, there weren't 80 folks in the circle. I don't know if this makes any sense in words, but it makes perfect sense in my brain

There were 20-30 spots, some occupied, some not, in the circle of Death Eaters in the graveyard. Voldy left some spots open to remember the ones who couldn't be there, either because they'd died, they were in Azkaban, or they were at Hogwarts. If you're right, and Lupin's right, there would be around 80 spots (filled and unfilled) instead of 20 or 30. So we have to assume there are other Death Eaters besides the ones called to his side that night in the graveyard.

[AngelicS_89]

I'm really sorry for mistakes

I don't think Voldy taught all the Death Eaters... Remember what Sirius said about Snape, how he was so almost obsessed with learning Dark Arts, even in Hogwarts... Voldy obviously didn't teach Snape dark arts in Hogwarts, or before it, but he was talented in Dark Arts before becoming a wizard who was of age, or before becoming a death eater.

I think it's written somewhere in the book,just not sure where...He probably taught them just some of the dangeorus spells that you probably can't just learn on the street.

I think Lupin just said 4 to 1 like when you in real life say "I wouldn't do that in a millon years"or something like that anyway.He said that just to explain it was so hard to defeat DE-s that it felt like there are 4 times as many and the real story probably was there were outnumbered 2 to 1.Just a question 'Where in book is that written so I could find it?Are you sure the all Order members were involved?'

If Lupin is telling the truth I just think that there are only 20-30 DE-s and other rest 50 are LV followers which are called with other group name or even don't have it...

Anyway I don't think we'll ever agree about this,so it's best that we leave this topic unti 6/7th book where we'll find out what's truth.

[Athena Appleton]

I think it's written somewhere in the book,just not sure where...He probably taught them just some of the dangeorus spells that you probably can't just learn on the street.

nope, not mentioned in any books I've read... however it is mentioned that Snape studied Dark Arts well before becoming a Death Eater.

I think Lupin just said 4 to 1 like when you in real life say "I wouldn't do that in a millon years"or something like that anyway.He said that just to explain it was so hard to defeat DE-s that it felt like there are 4 times as many and the real story probably was there were outnumbered 2 to 1.

but if youre right, there were 20 or 30 Death Eaters and 20 or 30 Order members... so they wouldn't be outnumbered at all.

I know, I'm a pest.

[slava]

i dont think thet flitik and victor croom will be at the phoenix order.

[paintballdecoy]

Very nice lists, I believe you have got all of the charcters mentioned so far. Good Job

[pinky p]

it's also possible that when they said "we were outnumbered 10 to 1" or whatever it was, it was just one occasion where not all the members of the order were there. perhaps, say, two members were on a patrol when a big group of death eaters showed up and started attacking them... they would be outnumbered then

[Alice I]

I found a site that completely catogorises the entire Harry Potter Universe in a veryorganised and easy to navigate way. It is called the Harry Potter Lexicon and I usually have it open while I am writing for easy reference. The address for anyone interested is:
http://www.hp-lexicon.org

[Alice I]

Sorry all the nice looking page address is:
http://www.hp-lexicon.org/index-2.html

[AngelicS_89]

Oh,I know that one.I' really coooool.There is everything there!Even spells!