The Dementors

[Colin]

ETA: This post came from another thread, but I thought it was perfect to kick-start a thread purely about dementors in the book 5 characters section. By the way, Colin is responding to what I wrote about JKR saying in an interview that the dementors represent depression as she was once very depressed and therefore, how people react in the prescence of dementors mirrors her experiences with depression. If any of you can answer Colin's questions, I'll be most interested to read your thoughts, especially since, in this area of the forum, we can incorporate any new findings on dementors from book 5! ~ Lizzy


Lizzy,

I don't read JKR's interviews, so this may have been answered already, but I had a kind of a thought. When a Dementor applies the Kiss of Death, does the newly freed soul become a Dementor?

If not, where do they come from? Have we seen any clues?

And. Can they be killed? How do they travel to and from their island? Apparate? Are they alive?

I'm just full of questions:)

[Lizzy Bennet]

Lizzy,

I don't read JKR's interviews, so this may have been answered already, but I had a kind of a thought. When a Dementor applies the Kiss of Death, does the newly freed soul become a Dementor?

If not, where do they come from? Have we seen any clues?

And. Can they be killed? How do they travel to and from their island? Apparate? Are they alive?

I'm just full of questions:)

Hmmmm, as I mentioned above, I don't have answers to these questions, but I do have thoughts and ideas which will probably result in MORE questions!

I don't know whether or not the newly freed soul becomes a dementor (are dementors souls without bodies? ), but if they do, what about Barty Crouch, Jr. from book 4? I don't recall getting background information on dementors at all, but I'll sure be keeping my eyes peeled as I am currently re-reading book 3. I have no idea if they can be killed...how do you kill something that isn't exactly alive? Deprive it of souls to feed off of, meaning, put it in isolation?

Here are some more dementor questions:

(1) I know dementors are supposed to feed off of happiness, but they seem rather eager to deliver the 'kiss' to anyone (Harry, Hermione, Sirius, Barty Crouch, Jr., etc.)...I mean, if they only liked those who were happy and had joy, what would the prisoners of Azkaban be giving them really? Do dementors simply feed off of anyone they can and can the 'kiss' be delivered to anyone?

(2) If the answer to the above is yes, and considering Barty Crouch, Jr. (a real baddie) got his soul sucked out (or was that only the case because the Minister of Magic ordered it? ), are the Death Eaters and Voldemort safe from the dementors? Could the dementors ever turn on them or does Voldemort hold the ace being able to give them what they really want, as stated in the Harry Potter books?

(3) If the people in Azkaban (mainly, the Death Eaters who escaped from Azkaban in book 5) are really evil, why put them in a prison with guards who, should Voldemort or someone equally as evil come to power, the guards might leave? I suppose there isn't a death penalty or dementor's 'kisses' given out to exceptionally bad wizards, but why?


I know, I know...Colin and I have both loaded you up with questions!! Hope somebody has some answers or thoughts at least!


~ Lizzy

[highsorcerer]

Well, dementors have some way to travel, since they appeared at Hogwarts on quite short notice (GoF). However, it appears they can only be summoned away by the Ministry of Magic, as they were in PoA, GoF, and OotP.

I rather suspect that dementors are treated by the Ministry of Magic pretty much the way they treat other intelligent non-human life forms. House Elves are enslaved, centaurs banished to the Forbidden Forrest, Giants hunted, Goblins under tight control, etc. Dementors are reduced to guards at a prison where they probably get a low level buzz from the long timers, and get their best "feeding" from the new inmates. So I'd suggest the only reason Dementors were ever under control would be because they didn't have any other options. A few patronus charms would keep them in line.

I don't think Dementors are evil as much as they are a force of nature. Predators hunt prey. Lions killing gazelles or house cats catching mice isn't overtly evil; it's that they feed on other animals.

Voldemort got the death eaters out of Azkaban because he offered them a deal, probably to serve as his personal enforcers, with them getting more freedom to feed and perform a kiss.

As far as Fudge and Crouch Jr. goes, there is a simple answer; a cover up. Fudge was behind the cover up, since he feared Crouch Jr., if left available to testify, would give credence to Dumbledore's position that Voldemort had returned. By allowing the Dementor to kiss him goodbye, he buried the evidence.

[Meg Boyd]

First of all I am really freaked out...

I've been feeling extremely depressed lately.

There's no need to explain it...we all know the symptoms of depression from those prozac advertisments on TV...

After seeing a picture of the Dementors from HP movie # 3 last week, I've been having dreams about dementors every night since...weird i know...

Today I read this thread and according to Lizzy, JKR said that dementors represented depression, the way they suck the feeling of joy out inside of you etc, i totally agree...but I am really freaked out about those stupid dreams I've been having....it was like I was dreaming about depression too...lol...kinda...

I think High Sorcerer has it right on the nose with the dementor thing i agree with everything you say down there, and i really like the whole force of nature thing...

I don't think dementors are alive or dead, just simply there...

I don't think the sucked up souls become dementors, I just think that they get consumed by the dementors like a food stuff.

I think feeding on happy feelings is more like a drip feeding, much like an IV, but a whole soul is like a Thanksgiving Dinner...

[Colin]

This discussion brings me to a larger question:

In JKR's world, what is alive and what is dead?

The answer is not the same as it is for you and I. Think of the things in her world that seem alive, but would not be alive in our world:

People in portraits
Ghosts
Dementors
Poltergeists
Wizarding Chess pieces
Phoenixes
Sphinxes
The beings inside prophacies

These are a few of the items in her world that seem to have "Life" but would be "dead" in our world.

Can you think how this could happen? What else seems to defy death?
.
.
.
And who is in Tom Riddle's grave?

[Meg Boyd]

Tom Riddle is in Tom Riddle's grave. Lord Voldemort's dad was also named Tom Riddle, and since he was murdered by LV, he is in a grave...

I my gosh, I am sorry

That sounded rude...I didn't mean it to be, sorry...but i don't really know a better way to word that, oh well...

[Holly Golightly]

Okies' here's how I figure it... Dementors are bodily things, but with no soul... Didnt' someone say that they want to reduce others to soul-less beings like themselves? (I have a vague memory, bt not from which book? ) I figure that they are alive, but they dont' seem to be able to be killed... Very strange?

I did assume though, that if a dementor sucked out someone's soul, that they became another Dementor, but aparently no so...(Barty Jr.!) But maybe if they cant' be killed, they have no need to reproduce?

[Eol]

I reckon Dementors are alive. They are constantly referred to as creatures. They feed and apparently communicate. They have desires (they couldn't resist coming to the quidditch matches) They make decisions---> They decided to try and kiss harry as well as Barty Crouch. They choose to follow Voldemort rather than the MoM

[Meg Boyd]

you have a point there, Eol...I never thought of it that way

[fred]

its kiss of death not of life the have to feed on the souls. its a no

[ganymede]

if the dementors can physically do stuff, then i guess they ought to be alive

[Nightcrawler]

I don't think I can cast a vote. I see them as neither alive, nor dead.

I see them as being trapped somewhere in the middle of these two options, and because they can never truly die, they can never know true peace. Because of this, they can never know true happiness and are therefore forced to feed off the hapiness of others.



Then again, I could be completely wrong. Perhaps Dementors are magical creatures that are born somwhere. They live and feed (in their own way), breed and eventually die. If that is the case, then they are alive.

On the other hand, perhaps they are merely animated corpses brought to "life", or ancient demonic beings summoned by some sort of ritual or even a freak accident. Much like a zombie, vampire or spirit. If this is the case, then they are dead.


My sister suggested that the people who get their souls sucked out eventually become dementors. I believe that this is at least possible. I believe that Lupin says something to the effect of (paraphrasing) "once the dementor's kiss is given is gone, the person becomes empty and souless, just like them."

There are many ways that one could interperet this. The words "just like them" could be a metephor, or they could be literal. If they are a metaphor, then I suppose the souless person grows old and dies without a soul. If they are literal, then the person would grow old, slimy, start to rot and develop a sudden taste for black robes. And they would never truly die. But at the same time, the soul is gone, so in a sense they are trapped between life and death, forced to feed on the happiness of others, yada, yada, yada.

So maybe that is why the dementors get all excited when they are allowed to perfom the kiss; they're getting a new buddy! I imagine that the process would take quite a while, which would explain why Barty Jr. is not a dementor (yet).

I feel that until JKR gives us more information about the nature of dementors (which she probably won't), we can not be sure exactly what they are.

My opinion is that they are neither alive nor dead. They are trapped in-between.

[Nightcrawler]

In JKR's world, what is alive and what is dead?

People in portraits
Ghosts
Dementors
Poltergeists
Wizarding Chess pieces
Phoenixes
Sphinxes
The beings inside prophacies

These are a few of the items in her world that seem to have "Life" but would be "dead" in our world.

I cannot answer for sure but I can offer my opinion.


People in Portraits:

They are not dead because they were never alive in the first place. They are an illusion, the wizard equivilent of a computer program. Wizard photographs are "programed" to move and I imagine that portraits are just an extention of this. They are not only "programed" to move, but also speak and mimic human emotions.


Ghosts:

These guys are dead. They just happen to be still around to enjoy it.


Dementors:

See above post.


Poltergiests:

Dead. A poltergiest is a mean spirit who is not techniclly a ghost. I suppose the difference would be that ghosts are non-corporeal (they can't touch or move things) whereas a poltergeist can (Peeves throws things around all the time). Nonetheless, he seems to be a supernatural spirit of some sort -perhaps from someone who died, perhaps from another dimension, but both lead me to the conclusion that he is dead in the same way that ghosts are.


Wizarding Chess Peices

I imagine that these are complex "programes" in the same way that portraits are. They are clearly not dead, however I don't believe that they are "alive" either, because I cannot imagine the wizarding commnunity allowing children to play a game where living, breathing creatures go about killing one another. The are probably programed to interact and argue with the player for comical value.


Pheonixes:

Alive. They pass into death for a few moments when they burn up, but when they return, they seem to be fully functioning birds. Unlike ghosts or poltergeists, when pheonixes return from the grave, they are once again living.


Sphinxes:

Alive. They are just another sort of magical creature like centours, house elves or hippogriphs.


Beings inside prophercies:

I can not even pretend to know what these things are. Maybe they are forces from another reality, sent to this one in order to keep it flowing as it should. We will never get a look at this other reality, so I guess we will never know what the heck they are (That is if they even come from another reality, this last one is just speculation on my part).

What else seems to defy death?

Vampires and zombies:

Well, vampires have only been referred to and zombies have not even been mentioned, but just about every other author and/or filmaker has established that these creatures are dead.


Possesed people:

Quirrel for example. I think he's still alive... just really deformed and messed up.


Harry:

He defied death due to a love protection spell his mother cast over him. So he is alive (duh).


Voldermort:

When the Adava Kedavra curse bounced off Harry and landed back on Voldermort, why didn't Voldermort die? Anybody certainly else would have. Voldermort was so badly injured that his body was no longer corporial, yet he was not truly dead. In GoF he mentions self experimentation, and this probably explains his less-than-human apperance. My theory on how he survived the curse is that by that stage. he had become a being similar to the dementors -neither alive nor dead. Clearly he is no longer what we would call "human".

And who is in Tom Riddle's grave

Tom Riddle is in Tom Riddle's grave. Tom Riddle senior that is .


Sorry 'bout the long post, hope my opinion helps. BTW, I'd be interested to hear if other people agree/disagree with anythin I've said, its always a good thing to hear more opinions.

[Meg Boyd]

JKR said in an interview that the Dementors were a metaphor for depression, and well my friend Depression is a mental condition that is very much part of one's life. Perhaps this metaphor makes it hard to say whether Dementors are alive or whatnot because they are just part of a whole...perhaps if one is thinking metaphorically they are dead, because depression is "dying" of the soul or perhaps they are alive because they are vicious enough to murder a soul???

[phoebe]

i think they're alive..i mean, they van do physical stuff like killling and casting spells and stuff like that....rite?