Voldemort's Puppets: Choices Between Easy & Right

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Voldemort's Puppets: Choices Between Easy & Right

Postby Lizzy Bennet » Monday 23 June 2003 2:00:16am

Did anyone besides me notice that the 'return of Voldemort' played itself out far more so through other people than Voldemort himself? :???:

Granted, we didn't know what Voldemort was doing most of the book (except snatches we got from Harry's 'visions'), and while Voldemort had his own agenda, mostly he used other people to do his dirty work (the Death-Eaters, primarily). People who served the Dark Lord before and once broken out of Azkaban, went to serve him again. Voldemort wasn't even the one who hurt the kids and killed Sirius--his Death-Eaters did.

My point being that Dumbledore's predictions--that people would not only make choices but that Voldemort's true strength lay in his ability to divide people and set them against each other--were so true and played out quite accurately in book 5. Voldemort, directly, was less the issue...the real issues were racism (against anyone not a pure-blood wizard), reforming anyone (professors, students, etc.) not with Fudge/Umbridge and his new 'regime' (fighting Dumbledore only because he was a threat to Fudge's credibility), and the 'government' (in this case, the Ministry of Magic) keeping people in the dark about Voldemort. I felt the Ministry was a bigger 'enemy' than Voldemort, in a way, because they kept the 'good people' from doing what needed to be done...

That's why I called this thread, "Voldemort's Puppets"...we've all known that the Death-Eaters have sworn allegiance to Voldemort, and we even knew that Voldemort would be working to get the giants, dementors, and anyone else he could on his side. He really lucked out that Fudge's vast insecurities and Umbridge's zealous obsession with running things *her* way really played to his favor...the two of them alone kept Hogwarts and everyone in it in such a mess they had little time to think or do anything about what Voldemort was up to.

Additionally, the Ministry was after all the innocent people (like Dumbledore and Sirius) all the while indirectly helping all the truly evil people (Voldemort, the Death-Eaters, etc.) and causing people who deserved no harm to really suffer. It was much easier to go with the Ministry's agenda and assumptions about the truth and be political (only thinking of Fudge's reputation and their racist beliefs [beliefs much like many of the Death-Eaters--the pure-blood wizards]) than it was to be brave and fight for all people and what was right, as the "Order of the Phoenix" and some of "Dumbledore's Army" did.

What are your thoughts about all of this? I'll be interested to hear! :typing:


~ Lizzy :jump:
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Postby Blaise Zabini » Monday 23 June 2003 3:00:40am

Yeah, this 'dividing' power of LV was shown a lot in OotP. As Lizzy said, other than his fight against DD at the end, LV did v. little in terms of physically using his power against anyone. All of what he did was done through the manipulation of others and the mistakes made by the MoM. As was revealed in a spoiler from awhile back, the problems associated with the ministry were also made clear, and Harry was shown that the government isn't always right (in this case, they were dead wrong.)

Furthermore, this book had a lot more underlying themes than all of the others. On a side note, the review in my newsaper gave the book a poor rating for these 'socio-political' undertones and said that the book was far too 'intelligent' to be enjoyed by the general public. :x Lol, I guess I've been wrong in thinking that intelligence was a good thing to have! But anyway, I did enjopy the fact that this book, far more than the others, could be interpreted on this other level. The power of racism has been mentioned and the fact that it's a destructive force and can blind people, causing them to do what's wrong instead of what's right (in both Harry's world and in our present-day one) makes it a v. poignant theme to consider. Furthermore, the book also had much to do with how a corrupt government governemnt can bring down and hinder the good intentions of those over whom it governs. Were it not for the short-sightedness and stuborn-ness of the MoM (and Fudge's hunger for power, for that matter,) than the plans of DD and the Order would have gone off much more easily.
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Postby Lily » Monday 23 June 2003 5:48:55am

Along those same lines, what I thought was really interesting was the fact that Voldemort didn't send the dementors after Harry in the summer - Delores did. That to me was the strangest thing in the book.
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Postby Holly Golightly » Monday 23 June 2003 2:30:17pm

Yeah, that was a little weird huh! She just seemed to have this huve vendetta against Harry...
What I found so strange though, was taht all year, Fudge and the minestry had been fighting so hard against the belief that Voldie had returned, and refusing to listen to anything about it, yet he changed his mind so quickly at the end...

I know that he saw Voldie and all, but still... I would have expected him to at least make an attempt to fight against it... I just dont' think that people like him admit to being wrong to easily... That was the strangest think of the book for me...
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Postby June » Tuesday 24 June 2003 7:35:16am

I think for Fudge, he was really convinced the whole "Voldemort is back" business is just a ploy of Dumbledore to grab power. He really didn't believe Voldmort is back. And so, when he saw Voldmort (whom he would have lots of reasons to be afraid of since he was one of the Magical Law Enforcers during the first war...) he was all of a sudden woken up to the truth. Voldemort is really back, and all his assumptions of the previous year had been wrong. Perhaps he even had believed it already, subconsciously, but didn't want to admit the truth to himself, and so pushed all the blame to Dumbledore. Now, he can't deny it anymore (the other members of the Ministry saw Voldemort too, anyway...) he was terrified, panicked and probably didn't think of denying it in his state of mind. He had always relied heavily on Dumbledore anyway, and now when confronted with a problem he can't deal with, he naturally turned to Dumbledore. I think that's probably why he changed his mind so quickly in the end...
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28 Students Made the Choice

Postby highsorcerer » Wednesday 25 June 2003 3:21:07am

Has it occured to anybody else that 28 students (the members of Dumbledore's Army) all made the choice between what was easy (obeying the school regulations) and what was right (learning defense against the dark arts on their own)? Six of them (Harry, Ron, Ginny, Hermoine, Luna, and Neville) made another hard choice between was they felt was right (trying to save Sirus) and what was easy (ignoring it).
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Postby Boycey » Wednesday 25 June 2003 9:39:32am

I think Voldemort certainly lucked out with the ministry being so ignorent towards him being alive. It did give himself more time to gain strength though getting a bigger army I guess, but I think JKR had to but in that the ministry was ignorent, as for a start the book context and storyline would of been completly differant, plus I think she wanted Voldemort to have a great amry for the start of book 6, something I dont think he would of been able to do if the ministry was to act alot faster then they did.
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Postby Lizzy Bennet » Friday 27 June 2003 9:20:17pm

Boycey wrote:I think Voldemort certainly lucked out with the ministry being so ignorent towards him being alive. It did give himself more time to gain strength though getting a bigger army I guess, but I think JKR had to but in that the ministry was ignorent, as for a start the book context and storyline would of been completly differant, plus I think she wanted Voldemort to have a great amry for the start of book 6, something I dont think he would of been able to do if the ministry was to act alot faster then they did.


I agree wholeheartedly, Boycey. :) Additionally, what Dumbledore said in book 4 how Voldemort's true strength lie in his ability to spread dischord and divide people was all too well illuminated in book 5. Perhaps everyone had to react in their own ways to his return before realizing and appreciating how much they all must band together in order to fight him.
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Postby werebane » Friday 27 June 2003 10:22:19pm

Yea b/c it made two groups of people; believers and non-believers. they were fighting each other instead of LV
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Postby Lizzy Bennet » Friday 27 June 2003 10:42:46pm

werebane wrote:Yea b/c it made two groups of people; believers and non-believers. they were fighting each other instead of LV


Indeed! Voldemort, without even wishing it to be so, was bought time and space to do pretty much whatever he needed to do regarding the prophecy and building up his followers. The 'good guys' lost a lot of ground to Voldemort, due to the Ministry, particularly the egomanical Fudge and the power-hungry Umbridge! :eek:

Unfortunately, although the Ministry of Magic (particularly Fudge; can't speak for Umbridge! :evil: ) has 'seen the light' on the LV issue (regarding his return), I can't say the Slytherins have...so many of their parents are Death-Eaters, so naturally, the kids feel loyalty to their parents, not necessarily Hogwarts, the Order, or the Ministry. :-?

Dumbledore's Army, unless I'm mistaken, including not a single Slytherin, which makes me wonder what they were up to in book 5. :o This is a whole new generation of possible 'Death-Eaters'...Voldemort successfully recruited the most of the giants, has some very loyal Death-Eaters (like the horrid and unmericiful Bellatrix :evil: ), and is working on other groups...why not tap into the Slytherin kids who are right there, on-site, at Hogwarts, and more importantly, close in proximity to Harry? :-?

I wonder if Voldemort won't manipulate things to have the newest 'puppets' be Slytherin kids and have them act as 'spies' for their parents who are 'Death-Eaters'? :evil: The Slytherins, for the most part, despise Harry, particularly Draco, who really has an axe to grind with Harry now that his father, Lucius, has been sent to Azkaban (or will be sent to Azkaban). What are your thoughts?
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Postby werebane » Friday 27 June 2003 11:29:40pm

Niw that fudge realises that the dementers are going to revold against him for sure, is it really smart to put people in azkaban??
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Postby Lizzy Bennet » Friday 27 June 2003 11:37:18pm

werebane wrote:Niw that fudge realises that the dementers are going to revold against him for sure, is it really smart to put people in azkaban??


Not especially, now that you mention it. :lol: I don't think he'd kill them ala the veil, but then again, who knows? :???: I wouldn't mind giving ol' Bella (Bellatrix Lestrange) a shove through there myself! :mad: Ok, rant done...she makes me so angry, though, and she is so evil! :evil: She's right up there with ol' Voldy! :eek:
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Postby HuffleDuck » Monday 30 June 2003 5:09:49am

JK did say something about chosing what's right and what's easy. And they did. They chose what's right(Well, particulary Harry did) :-? Hmm only if DD told harry at first about everything then he wouldn't be reckless.. Hermy was so right about the whole thing.. it's just sad that thing could be done right if only some making a right decisions.
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Postby gecko » Monday 30 June 2003 11:49:26am

I thought I'd read somewhere that there's one Slytherin who turns out to be good in the next book/books. I suspect it's just a rumour, but who knows. It could bring the 'stand together thing' the sorting hat was on about a bit closer.
If it's true, than that Slytherin could in turn spy on the other 'death eaters to be' Slytherins.. interesting.
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Postby Lizzy Bennet » Saturday 5 July 2003 12:03:02am

gecko wrote:I thought I'd read somewhere that there's one Slytherin who turns out to be good in the next book/books. I suspect it's just a rumour, but who knows. It could bring the 'stand together thing' the sorting hat was on about a bit closer.
If it's true, than that Slytherin could in turn spy on the other 'death eaters to be' Slytherins.. interesting.


I wonder which Slytherin that would be . . . I'd say Draco, but he and Harry would have to get over some serious differences, and I don't know if JKR would go that route . . . it might seem trite and/or hokey. If it is true, do any of you lot have ideas as to which Slytherin it might be? :???:

Blaise made a good point about this book having more levels of depth to it than the others . . . there was a good deal of 'politics' in this book which could be easily related back to 'real life'. Additionally, I laughed out loud reading Holly's post because it reminded me of how Fudge, at the end when he finally decided Voldemort was back, called Voldemort "Lord Thingy". :lol: As Holly pointed out, he (Fudge) sure changed his tune in a hurry! No doubt Voldemort was most likely disappointed when the Ministry finally 'saw' the truth for themselves...it would have been much easier to conquer the magical world had it stayed divided...:-? :(

~ Lizzy :angel:
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