Comments and Critisism (Book 5)

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Comments and Critisism (Book 5)

Postby Lunatech » Monday 23 June 2003 5:29:30pm

somehow the book lost me at the point they got the prophecy. the prophecy contained no useful information to voldemorte on how to kill harry, it simply stated that only one of them will survive.

i felt my interest losing near the last 3 chapters. it seemed to me just slightly out of believability that these DA kids held out as much as they did in the department of mysteries before Lupin, Tonks, Sirius, and Big D showed up. Add Tom Riddle appearing right in the middle of the Department of Mysteries in the Ministry of Magic with 10 of his death eaters in costume...

secondly it was stated that tom riddle already knew what was on the prophecy...why else would he prance towards Godrick Hollow to beat on the Potters 15 years ago. he knew about it and should have known that the prophecy crystal couldn't have contained anything interesting.

the only thing that prevented the kids death was the useless crystal. plain and simple. If i were lucius i would backhand voldemorte and tell him to get a pensieve like dumbledoor.

:) here come the flames....
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Postby Nothlit » Monday 23 June 2003 5:39:32pm

Remember when Dumbledore said somebody had overheard the Prophecy when Trelawny made it in the Hog's Head 15 years earlier, but had been caught and thrown out of the pub before he heard the whole thing? So Voldemort only knew part of it. He didn't know the part about Harry having some special powers, he just knew the part that said a boy would be born who could vanquish him, so he figured he better go kill this kid.

I think the kids holding off the Death Eaters was mostly dumb luck and a lot of running around in the dark, hiding from them. Very few spells were actually cast until the adults showed up.

What I wonder is why you can just waltz right into the Ministry of Magic through the visitor's entrance, even when the place is obviously closed for the night and everyone (including security) has gone home!
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Fed Up With Prophecies

Postby Fafnul Black » Monday 23 June 2003 5:55:20pm

Truly, I experienced the same feeling as Hermione in Divination Class,
when Prof. Trewnblabla is about to bring up The Grim again, upon
reading OotP : Oh, No ! Not a bloody prophecy again !

It must be some Fantasy books (or such, let us say Wizarding Books) drawback, that the story almost always falls into the tracks of a
$##!! prophecy ... And in HP case, it seems it has some major
impact on the overall thread, just like in other books (Robin Hobb's
Six Duchies, Eddings' Belgarade, and much more). Too bad, although
the "big picture" is not the most interesting point of HP plot, I daresay.
The fun is in the details of how it unfolds !
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Postby Lunatech » Monday 23 June 2003 5:56:26pm

ah good point about voldemorte simply overhearing it. that's true. but regardless, the goal was to kill harry....and the death eaters had harry dead had they not hesitated for the prophecy that was only suppose to provide "a clue" to kill him.

i'd gone for the sure thing.

think of it like a bad Batman episode. The joker has batman, tries to get creative to kill him, rather than just point and shoot. Batman escapes. Also the prophecy can be held after it's been retrieved. If i were lucious i would have just snatched that thing out of harry's hand. Neville seemed to not have a problem with it :).

as much as i like the series, this was still a very weak point to me.

but for the most part i was pleased with the book. i was a bit tired of the same voldemorte rising, harry squashing him before the school ends so he doesn't have to do it over the summer routine. that was getting old. harry wasn't perfect, neither was his father. i think the shade of doubt brought an interesting side of harry. he knows people are people, chosen or not. His father was far from perfect...downright arrogant. Every sign which harry drew confidence from showed its weakness. Harry can't hide behind his memories of his parents anymore. Dumbledoor is not invincible...on the contrary. Dumbledoor can't kill voldemorte.
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Postby Nothlit » Monday 23 June 2003 7:28:27pm

Well, according to the Prophecy, it would seem that nobody can kill Harry or Voldemort except each other... "Either must die at the hands of the other." So, despite Dumbledore's power, he can't kill Voldemort, because Harry is destined to, thanks to the Prophecy. The Death Eaters wouldn't be able to kill Harry, because only Voldemort can. However, I'm sure they could seriously incapacitate him to the point where Voldemort could be summoned to finish off the job without much struggle, but I doubt that'll ever happen...too easy. ;)
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Postby Lunatech » Monday 23 June 2003 7:32:23pm

haha true.

also, dumbledore himself said that there are many ways to break a man without killing him.

if i were a death eater i'd pounce on him...just to make sure i can't kill him.... :P
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Postby DrkSphere » Monday 23 June 2003 11:34:08pm

The way I saw it was that.. Voldemort knew he couldn't kill harry in the beginning, and didn't know WHY he couldn't since he didn't know the other half of the prophecy. He also knew that the Death Eaters couldn't kill him as well, and the Death Eaters knew that too. So the only way to find out HOW Harry can die is by finding out the rest of the prophecy. They had no idea what the rest of it was yet, and still don't... therefore Voldemort still doesn't know how he can kill harry.

If he had known that only he can kill him, he wouldn't of needed the prophecy, and the Death Eaters would have simply incapacitated Harry until Voldie got there to deliver the final blow.

That's pretty much what I've gathered out of how Harry and the D.A. were able to get out of that area alive... was because Voldemort knew that he couldn't kill harry unless he did SOMETHING, and believed that neither could the Death Eaters do anything about it.
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Postby Neo » Tuesday 24 June 2003 10:05:09am

About everyone entering to the Ministry innight, and nobody home; I'm sure that DE took care of that before Harry's arrival.
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Postby Scellanis » Tuesday 24 June 2003 4:08:48pm

well i think the book is the best book i have ever read, its absoloutly brilliant!!!

i didn't get caught by any nasty spoilers before hand and i thought the death rumour was brilliant cos it had suspecting nearly every significant character that got in danger, injured or went missing.....by the time i got to the actual death i was expecting the person to come back laughing or some such thing

:grin: :grin: :grin:

brilliant...started reading it again yesterday
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Postby Boycey » Wednesday 25 June 2003 11:06:59am

As its called comments and critisisms, I best say I enjoyed this book alot, in fact I wish it didnt end, it might not of been as good as my favorite book which is book 3 but I enjoyed it all the same, and it explained alot, and was another great read for JKR.

But I have sooo many critisms from the book it un real, here is just a few of them to go with yours you have already Lunatech

1. was it just me or was Gwarp turning up just in time just way to convinent, I mean it happened in book 2 with the car, but once you can get away with it, twice just was way to convinent in my veiw,

2. The secetary at the ministry in the telephone box, she let the kids go down the telephone entraince with the explaination of " to save someone" now im sorry, if you say that your buisness it that then there is no way the telephone secertary (real or not), should let you go down to the minisery, otherwise terrorst could quite easliy steal MI5 secrets if it was that easy to get into goverment building

3. Okay I know that there was no security for harry and his gang when he got there, fair enough maybe the death eater dealt with him before hand so they might not have to deal with them, but the death eaters must of gotten in before these attact, like how else would they of known that you cant touch the phophercy, so how did they get in my you could say by stelth, but if hogwarts is stelth free then the ministry certainly should be, otherwise im amazed that this has not happened before, and to get into the mistery of secret too, oh thats just too unbelevie for me.

4. The why was no one on watch at the ministry, what I mean was they was protecting the phophersy that why Mr weasley was attacked as he was on guild at the time, so why was there not another death in the order of phinoex or an alert at lest that Lord Voldemort had attacted and gotten into the ministey, these could only mean there was no one at guard at the time, why not

5. The context of the phophersy, was that really worth protecting, I guess it would be better for Voldemort not to know the context of it, as it would mean that he could not be too sure of what he can and cant do, but I can't see why dumbledore would risk live over it, especailly as no one could touch it apart from Harry.

6. Dumbledore and his list of mistakes, Okay Dumbledore explain why he did not tell harry about the phophersy, but come on Dumbledore what a rookie mistake to do for a wizard not to say, hang on harry what ever you do dont trust your dreams, as Voldemort might minipluate them, this would not give too much away to why Voldemort attacked harry when a kid, and would of solved alot of problems, and for a great wizard like Dumbledore not to realise is just unbeleiveable,

7. My did Lucius Malfoy not just say accio phophersy at the start instead of asking harry to hand it over, okay you could say that maybe Harry had to hand it over, but then why would the death eaters try to use accio on harry then after if this was the case

8. Why run after the kids, just keep on saying accio phophersy, as eventually harry would of let go of it

9. Why is hermonie still alive, why did the death eater not use Advada Kedarvra on her, in fact why did the death eaters use other spells apart from advada kedavra, which is not only deadly, but unblockable

10. how is there not more deaths, there was duels all around, now you would of thought that death eaters would of definatly of used Advada Kedavra on the Order of Phineox, the only thing I can think of is that Advada Kedavra is blockable and the Moody (crouch Jr) lied to harry when he said that you can't block it.

11. Malfoy a prefect, what was Dumbledore thinking

theys lots more, I just cant think of them, but even though I loved the book there was alot of flaws in my opinion in the book, but not to worry I guess.
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Postby Person#11 » Wednesday 25 June 2003 4:57:23pm

I might have said something about AK earlier here, but I am sure you really had to mean it, you have to absolutely hate what you are using the spell on or absolutely fear it... or something like that.

I think that Crouch Jr. may have been an arachnaphobe, and that is why he used spiders.
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Postby highsorcerer » Thursday 26 June 2003 12:00:11am

Boyce...

1. Dues Ex Machine. Yes, two times in the forest was one time two many. Actually, I expected the car to show up instead of Grawp.

2 / 3. Obviously, the magic receptionist takes people at face value. However, it should have told them the ministry was closed, or there should have been a night watchman.

4. Quite simple. The OotP was on guard because they wanted to catch a death eater red-handed trying to get the prophecy. Remember, until Rookwood got out of Azkaban, Voldemort and his cronies didn't know only a person who a prophecy referred to could remove it. After Rookwood got out, there was no need for a watch, because they didn't think Voldemort would go, and that Harry's occlumency lessons would keep him out.


5. Yep, it was worth protecting. Keeping Voldemort in doubt and fear as to WHY he couldn't kill Harry Potter is a powerful weapon against him.

6. It isn't the first time we've seen experienced wizards error in judgement over what Harry is and isn't ready for. The Weasley parents argued about telling Harry about Sirius Black. Mrs. Weasley was protective, while Mr. Weasley felt Harry could shoulder the burden. However, nobody thought he was ready to learn Sirius was his Godfather. Dumbledore became overly protective of Harry until after GoF, especially after everything he went thought, then became concerned that if he told Harry, Voldemort would learn. Now he's realized that Harry has shouldered the responsibilities of a grown wizard since his first year, and regrets the choices he made.

7. Death Eaters are arrogant. They thought he'd hand it over like a good little boy instead of fighting for it. Obviously, they didn't learn their lesson about Harry from the end of GoF. After Harry and the D.A. fought them to a draw, I doubt they'll ever underestimate Harry again. Particularly Bellatrix Lestrange, who had to be hit with the Crucius Curse by Harry before she realized he meant business. Hopefully, Voldemort will give her a good dose of Crucio for screwing up the mission. He'd do the same to the other Death Eaters, but they're in jail. Maybe they are better off there; Voldemort can't be happy with them being fought to a draw by a bunch of 4th and 5th year Hogwarts Students, and captured by the OotP.

8. Harry was blocking accio each time they tried. They had to find a different way.

9. The Death Eater that attacted Hermoine had been jinxed and unable to properly pronounce the curse. The mumbling of it weakened it, but still hurt Hermoine pretty badly.

10. Think of the headlines in the Daily Prophet: Dead Wizards Found in Ministry of Magic, Victims of Avada Kedavara Curse. All that why trying to deny that Voldemort is back and his Death Eaters are working for him once again. This mission required secrecy, and dead bodies don't provide that.

11. Perhaps it's the head of the houses that select prefects, and Dumbledore simply asked McGonnagall not to burden Harry with more responsibility.
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Postby vacuum » Monday 30 June 2003 4:27:23am

OK, two things:


Why didn't the order just have Harry destroy the prophecy? They had people on guard, they knew they could access the room. Sure it would be dangerous for Harry, but they had an invisibility cloak and everything. He could have just run in there, threw it on the ground and used a portkey real fast to esacpe.


Also, I didnt realize this till I read this string. The only other person to touch the prophecy was neville. Sure the death eaters wanted to grab it, but they wouldn't know if it was safe for them to touch it yet. They thought anyone could grab it until that guy was sent to st mungos.

In short, possibly Neville IS mentioned in the prophecy. Maybe its a joint prophecy, maybe it was suppoed to be Neville, then Voldy attacked Harry and he was joined into the prophecy.


Does this make sense? It sounds like a long shot, but hey.
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Postby zledm007 » Monday 30 June 2003 3:02:11pm

I think only the people in the prohpesy can remove it from the shelf, after that it soesn't matter. and, lucius and the other de's were trying to get the prophesy from harry anyway. how were they supposed to take it to voldy w/out touching it. it is interesting, however, that neville was the only other person to handle it. while i don't think that really has anything to do w/ the prophesy itself, i do think it's jkr's way of telling us that neville just might be a bit more involved in future books, perhaps in the final battle against voldy.
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Postby Mint » Wednesday 9 July 2003 2:40:29pm

Well, I thought the prophecy was really cool!

Why was it important?

Because Harry only wanted to survive, he didn't care for Killing Voldie. He never ever attempted to kill him......or anyone!!!

Imagine if you had to kill someone? I would completely freak out!

Harry wanted to punish Voldie, not kill him.
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