Animal Rights/vegetarians

[Scellanis]

well im guessing there cant be many of vegetarian wizards or animal rights protesting wizards...cos ive always wondered

when they transfigure an animal into a stone or a pin cushion....what happens to the animal's soul...it goes from thinking, feeling, living creature to inanimate object because some wizard says it should.....

and the same goes for when (for example)stones become animals......

i wonder...maybe people do enough transfiguration that when you lose one animal you gain another so the soul of the animal just moves to the newly created animal....

bit of a problem if you were a vegetarian wizard dont you think cos transfiguration is compulsary and im sure vegetarians wouldnt agree with that

[Mistress Siana]

That's exactly what I've always wondered!
I'm a vegetarian myself, so I'd hardly have anything to eat in Hogwarts.
I'd refuse to use any ingrediants to a potion that require killing an animal as well. I think, transfiguration isn't that much of a problem, as long as it's only temporary. Actually, the same question could be asked about petrifying human beings...

[Scellanis]

what do you mean petrifying??

i mean...thats what the basilisk does by accident with the intention of killing so i dont think that counts....

whereas wizards voluntary turn animals into inanimate objects on a regular basis in the interests of education.....and needing a pin cushion/whatever i assume.....

and then theres the turning a stone into a dog which cedric does....

although.....maybe everything has a soul +personality including the inanimate objects so it doesnt change much except the appearance and ability to communicate......hadnt thought of that.....

[Broken Machine]

I note worthy question but I think the sole purpose of the HP series is a way to create an imaginary world without all the politics of religion, politics in general, and peoples certain rights to be and do as they please such as being a Vegan or a meat eater. I think the use of such a topic as mud bloods is the authors way of showing how ugly a prejeduce can be in an imaginary world so as to teach a lesson to the reader without really bringing them out of a safe haven such as reading to escape reality.

As for your question, talk about a real discussion opener. The fact that you mention the animals soul not only opens the topic to spiritualism, which I stray as far way from as three headed dogs named fluffy, but also the whole vegitarian thing. I've tried to go cold turkey, no pun intended, but I just can't stay away from steak and hamburger. I hope to see this discussion grow so I can get some insight on vegans and maybe even the horrid idea of delving into the HP series with a religious viewpoint (yikes).

[Sacred Guardian]

well, some vegetarians just don't like meat, but a good point anyway

[Neo]

But what if souls does not exist in Jo books, that way transfigured animals wouldn't face the problem from having the one of an inanimate object. And I think that even if vegeterian wizard laws haven't been mentioned they exist, or maybe wizards in general are so respectuful that they don't need them.

[Scellanis]

no...but i mean...i doubt there would be a problem for pure blood families like the weasleys and the malfoys....

but take hermione...she is muggleborn, muggles have the vegetarian stuff....shes already gone all muggle about slavery and house elves hasnt she, how long before she realises about the animals, i think this topic is a very Hermione style thing judging by the way she reacted to the house elves, im surprised she hasnt already tried a protest on it

by the way, when i say vegetarian im meaning the people who are vegetarian because they dont want to eat animals by principle...not people who just dont like meat or are allergic to animal products.....

souls do exist though.....or the dementors wouldnt, dementors suck the souls from living creatures

we see that they have less effect on animals because animals have less complex emotions...but they still have them....

[Sacred Guardian]

and isn't a soul what a ghost is sort of

[Broken Machine]

Good point on the dementor thing. It never occured to me until you said it. It would seem impossible to have a wizarding world without the use of certain animals and their claws, skin, organs, and what not. I mean if you really think about it in book two the Mandrakes were very much alive as any animal but they were plants. They had a far more gruesome ending then any animal could I supposse. If Hermione started to protest anything I guess Harry and Ron could throw that in her face. Just tell her that if it wasn't for the demise of the Mandrakes she would have been petrified for good. Same goes for animals. The invisibility cloak is made of an animals fur and when you think about it the animal can choose to become invisible by turning it's skin invisible so there has to be some sort of physical connection to its fur. Which brings to mind the political view of wizards such as the preservation of the golden snidget. Of course the movement did put a hault on the Quidittch Field but eventually everything came to order. Oh and last thing, there is some stuff on that table in the mess hall that I wouldn't feed a blast ended skrewt.

[Mistress Siana]

To decide whether a soul exists or not would require a definition of a soul first.
I think that, basically, the whole subject can be seen as a question what actually gives a being the right to live, or the right to live in freedom.
And in my opinion, this is a dangerous subject, for a decision on who HAS the right to live also defines who doesn't.
In their essantials, the questions whether an animal has the right to exist, whether elves may be enslaved, whether 'mudbloods' are inferior to pure bloods, and whether, for example, death penalty can be justified, are the same: A limitation of a certain being's right to live.
Personally, I think that another creature's life is worther that my appetite for an hamburger, so I've decided not to eat meat.

[Mistress Siana]

btw, Paul, thanks and respect to you!! Most forums don't allow political or religious discussions.

[Neo]

Yeah, thanks.
About the soul Sonkem is right, in Jo's world there is a soul ( which seems to be stronger for wizards than muggles, maybe there is where magic power have there base)
And I believe that other animals can be food (when you are hungry), it's a natural thing. And if you don't eat animals, why do you eat vegetables? (I mean there are living creatures too)

[Scellanis]

there is the thing of rons flying car though...it quite clearly comes alive due to the use of magic on it....

to me that suggest everything has a soul.....including inanimate objects, it just shows more if you can move by your self....

but for the classification see the front of the Fantastic Beasts and where to find them book...where it explains how creatures are classified, i think that must have some bearing on how creatures are treated

like i said before i dont think pure blood wizards from wizarding families have a problem since its an issential part of their life and they are brought up like that.....but its the muggle borns coming in that may have a problem.....

i suppose with the killing mandrakes and stuff its do you want the human soul to survive or the soul of the mandrake.....

and then the transfiguration of things...maybe that has no effect.....it wouldnt if inanimate objects have souls...which i think they do...cos theres several examples...flying car, biting dustbins, dangerous tea sets.....magic seems to release them and give them more freedom but can also do the opposit...but i suppose they may get away with transfiguration because its not permanent..you could reverse the spell....and its probly not done very often outside school

[JessicaMalfoy]

ooc: I'm a vegatarian too. And I'm a Animal rights Activst lol I know where talking about in the wizard world but I thought I might add that.

[Neo]

Maybe in it in the wizard blood to know that animlas can suffer transfigurations and all that, so there wouldn't be a problem for muggle raised wizards