Draco and the Elder Wand

[Athena Appleton]

Okay, someone help me, because when I read this, it seemed to just come out of nowhere.

At what point did Draco become master of the Elder Wand?

[Phinea Rogue]

At the tower, shortly before Dumbledore's death, I think. When he wanted to kill him, but Snape did it instead of him - yet Draco was the one who defeated Dumbledore.

[choki]

Apparently when Draco disarmed Dumbledore with Expellarmius, the Elder Wand switched its alliance...

Somehow, it seems as if the Wand knows Dumbledore's plan to die and that it decided to find its new master.

[carsten]

At the tower, shortly before Dumbledore's death, I think. When he wanted to kill him, but Snape did it instead of him - yet Draco was the one who defeated Dumbledore.

Is is a little bit odd, that wands gain strength or usefulness by being taken away from their previous owners. It seems to be a mechanism to search for the strongest (meanest?) wizard. Weird!

Carsten

[GodrictheGriffon]

That is a little weird. It's like St. Christopher(no longer a Saint)looking for the most powerful person to follow. And then he chose God. Could Dumbledore or Harry be the most powerful one?

[Athena Appleton]

That is a little weird. It's like St. Christopher(no longer a Saint)looking for the most powerful person to follow. And then he chose God. Could Dumbledore or Harry be the most powerful one?

I don't know... I think that may have been the purpose at one point, but it seems to me that it's just evidence that no one is indestructible. I mean, Dumbledore, who is one of the most powerful wizards out there, was bested by a 16-year-old who had never had any outstanding talent.

And it wasn't that Harry was powerful, per se. Ultimately, it was like Snape had said all along, he gets by by luck, circumstance, or more talented friends. Dumbledore's death was an elaborate setup by him (purposely) and Snape (probably not purposely, but indirectly) designed, in part, to keep Voldemort from truly becoming master of the Elder Wand. If that hadn't happened, Voldemort could have done dark magic Harry never would have dreamed of.

[Cougie]

Although he never defeated Dumbledore, I think Voldy is still the true killer because he was the one who put the curse on the ring.

[GodrictheGriffon]

But he wasn't the one who actually killed. Snape was able to stop it spreading that quickly. So the Ring wasn't the cause of death. and if you're going on that theory, then it was Dumbledore who killed himself because he put on the ring.

[Athena Appleton]

But he wasn't the one who actually killed. Snape was able to stop it spreading that quickly. So the Ring wasn't the cause of death. and if you're going on that theory, then it was Dumbledore who killed himself because he put on the ring.

Well, yeah, but I think it's fair to say that in part, the ring was responsible for weakening him. And even though Snape slowed down the process, the curse from the ring was going to kill him in a short time anyway.

More than that, I think Voldemort was largely responsible for his death because of the potion in the cave. By the time Dumbledore and Harry returned to Hogwarts, Dumbledore was reduced to a fraction of his actual self, so much so that he was disarmed by a teenager. If he had his strength, he would not have lost the wand in that way and would have been able to fight back.

People can be killed as a result of an attack that they seemed to have recovered from. There was a murder trial within the last decade (can't remember exactly when) where a wife was charged with the murder of her husband. Six months previously, she had conspired to kill him by having a friend shoot him in the belly with a shotgun. He recovered and went home, and was fine until an infection at the point of entry actually killed him. She was found guilty of murder.

I kind of see the ring in the same way. If the whole incident hadn't happened that way, it's doubtful any plan Draco came up with would have done much harm to him.

Then again, I guess if we take things too literally, that the curse of the ring was responsible for Dumbledore's death, it has to be noted that Dumbledore actually knew he should not have put it on, he just lost his sense in a moment of weakness. Suicide?

[Eol]

Dumbledore's death was an elaborate setup by him (purposely) and Snape (probably not purposely, but indirectly) designed, in part, to keep Voldemort from truly becoming master of the Elder Wand. If that hadn't happened, Voldemort could have done dark magic Harry never would have dreamed of.

I completely agree with this. Dumbledore didn't have to freeze Harry, he could just have easily tried to stop Draco instead, or have Harry stop Draco from under the cloak. But that was not his goal. He wanted to save Draco's life as well as preventing Voldemort from becoming master of the Elder Wand. He only petrified Harry to stop him from interfering with the plan, which Harry would have certainly done.

As for Voldemort killing Dumbledore, yes the curse on the ring was what eventually finished him off, but Voldemort didn't set that specifically as a trap for Dumbledore. He thought his secret of the horcruxes was his alone, and simply cursed the ring to stop anybody from taking it. The ownership of wands passes through the direct defeat of the possessor, not anything indirect.

[youknowwho]

I think the key word hear is defeat, the wand doesn't change it's allegiance when it's master is killed but when it is forcibly taken from them, otherwise niether Grindelwald nor Dumbledore would have become it's master.

[*Riley*]

Is is a little bit odd, that wands gain strength or usefulness by being taken away from their previous owners. It seems to be a mechanism to search for the strongest (meanest?) wizard. Weird!
-Carston

If that is so Carston how come dumbledore got it, he isnt the meanest neither is harry . so read the book properly !

[Ms. Elsewhere]

It was discussed that Dumbledore had some 'bigger' ideas of his own, when it was revealed how he was friends with (what was that wizard he had a huge battle with again.. I can't seem to find it just now.) and that he conspired with him to start some kind of new order. I will look up the reference to that. I thought I would put it down now to stir some thought about the reputation of Dumbledore and his potential to be 'mean' or otherwise.

I don't have my book on me (as I have stupidly lent out my Half Blood Prince book) but, Didn't draco first disarm Dumbledore, and THEN didn't Snape kill Dumbledore with Draco's wand? Can someone clarify? Because if that was the case, the owner of the wand that defeated the owner of the Elder wand, would be the new master of the Elder Wand....


hmmmm....

(Will retrieve my book soon.)

[carsten]

If that is so Carston how come dumbledore got it, he isnt the meanest neither is harry . so read the book properly !

1. DD at the time when he got the Elder wand was greatly in danger to become a mean person. He we was strong all the way.
2. When I was writing about mean and strong wizards possesing the wand, I was writing about the MECHANISM, not about Harry or DD. Read my posts properly

Actually the real happy ending is the wand staying with good wizards, which it hasn't done for a long time, if I understood the historical references in the book correctly.

[Ms. Elsewhere]

That's exactly what I was trying to say..... thanks for puting it so clearly Carsten!

And yes, the elder wand is in good hands now.... did Harry decide to put it to rest? To never use it again? Yes.. he used it to repair his old wand, and then he said he was pitting it back where it came from. (p.600, DH)

How cool!

It would make a wicked Fan Fiction to write about that wand some more!