Voldemort's age a coincidence?

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Postby DarkOne » Monday 6 February 2006 12:57:20pm

darkcloak wrote:Good spot. Two things I would like to add:

I think when Dumbledore says "I know exactly how you feel" to Harry at the end of OotP, he may be giving a possible clue to his fight with Grindelwald. Perhaps Grindelwald killed his parents? Perhaps Dumbledore was prophesised as the only one who could defeat him? Also thinking about the death of Grindelwald, no-one seems to discuss him at all. You would think that the characters may draw parallels between the two "reigns of terror".

On another thread, perhaps Tom was on Grindelwald's side, perhaps he was there when Dumbledore defeated him and that's when he knew that he would have to go away and master the darkest magic to truly defeat DD?

BTW What was DD before he became Headmaster? Was he an auror?


Seriously... some people simply look too far into things. Grindelwald was mentioned in PS, which was designed as a childrens book believe it or not.

Also it says that Dumbledore was Transfiguration teacher in HBP (maybe mentioned before, I can't remember).
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Postby Chimera » Monday 6 February 2006 1:34:36pm

I thought Voldemort was a few years older than Hagrid, but no matter. If TR started in '38 at 11 years old then it stands that he was born in '27 or thereabouts. Harry was born in 1980, making Voldie 53 years older than Harry. Harry's age in HBP is 16, making Voldemort approximately 69, as opposed to "in his fifties".
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Postby noris » Monday 6 February 2006 9:13:59pm

dont shout me down but mayb her maths is really bad or just 4got wot she has already written things mentioned in passin are easily 4gotten.

its only people like us who read to much into things that pick up on them. it may just b a simple mistake, dont 4get she writes these things to a deadline n stuff can easily b overlooked.
just a thought, even tho i dont like the idea that she could b that thoughtless but it does happen. i cant remember wot i did yesterday let alone three or four years ago.
:???: :grin:
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Postby Chimera » Tuesday 7 February 2006 12:25:34pm

A good point Noris, but authors midway through working on a series generally tend to study the prior stories in the series to the minutiae, and nothing about JKR's writing strikes me as sloppy.
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Postby darkcloak » Tuesday 7 February 2006 1:34:46pm

DarkOne wrote:
In July 2005 darkcloak wrote:Good spot. Two things I would like to add:

I think when Dumbledore says "I know exactly how you feel" to Harry at the end of OotP, he may be giving a possible clue to his fight with Grindelwald. Perhaps Grindelwald killed his parents? Perhaps Dumbledore was prophesised as the only one who could defeat him? Also thinking about the death of Grindelwald, no-one seems to discuss him at all. You would think that the characters may draw parallels between the two "reigns of terror".
On another thread, perhaps Tom was on Grindelwald's side, perhaps he was there when Dumbledore defeated him and that's when he knew that he would have to go away and master the darkest magic to truly defeat DD?

BTW What was DD before he became Headmaster? Was he an auror?


Seriously... some people simply look too far into things. Grindelwald was mentioned in PS, which was designed as a childrens book believe it or not.


Sorry, I thought we could discuss the books on here.

DarkOne wrote: Also it says that Dumbledore was Transfiguration teacher in HBP (maybe mentioned before, I can't remember).


HBP now explains alot more about Dumbledore's past.
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Postby Mistress Siana » Wednesday 31 May 2006 3:03:48am

Sorry for bringing this up again, but I thought I'd mention this since somebody asked:

Before becoming Transfiguration teacher and later Headmaster at Hogwarts, Dumbledore was an alchemist. He was Nicolas Flamel's partner, and he discovered the several effects of dragon blood. It's said on the very card that mentions his victory over Grindelwald.

Strange coincidence: an alchemist's main goal is to be able to produce the Philosopher's Stone, and thus the Elixir of Life. The final intention is a complete tranformation of the soul, to reach o different sphere of existance or something of that kind. The different states of alchemists are symbolized by certain birds, and guess what's the sign of the final state? Right, the Phoenix.

Transformation of the soul, immortality...sounds familiar?
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Postby Athena Appleton » Wednesday 31 May 2006 4:23:28am

Wow, I've never heard about that, but that's pretty cool
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Postby Snow_Crystal » Wednesday 31 May 2006 9:53:15am

Wow that's really remarkable. I hadn't heard that either!
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Postby Jaikai » Saturday 5 August 2006 8:23:54am

I think the Grindelwald theory is true, to be honest. It's too much of a coincidence. But I read somewhere or other that Voldemort himself posesses a lot of similarities to Hitler...

Hitler was thought to have a jewish father who deserted him (or died, can't remember) early on in life. He got rejected by a jewish girl in his teens, and so many other instances led him to hate jews. He also supposedly hated them because it was a self-denial that his father could possibly be a jew, and he couldn't stand that quality in himself, so he destroyed it in others. He was obsessed about creating a new race of Aryans, or "pure bloods". They had all the qualities and looks Hitler desired and that he believed no jew could possess. He had a group of secret police, the S.S, that murdered all those jews in secret, and carried out all of his sordid tasks. When Hitler was brought to justice, some of his secret police force were brought to the court and were killed, but some evaded justice. But the fact remained that Hitler somehow "disappeared". Some say he commited suicide, some say he pretended to be dead and was still alive, some say he was hung, I can't remember if any of them are true, but I know they were all rumours because he went missing.

Now...

Voldemort had a muggle father who abandoned him at an early age. He grew up hating muggles (once he had found out about his true parentage) but blamed his mother (this actually subliminally ties in with hitlers jewish school sweetheart). When he found out the truth about his father, he felt disgusted with himself for being part of that "filthy blood" family line, and obliterated what he hated in himself through killing his grandparents and father ect. He keeps the fact he is half-blood close to him, because he is in self-denial and ashamed about being related to a muggle, and so he went on to brew a phenominal hate for people who were everything he hates in himself. He is obsessed with creating a world full of "pure-bloods", who have all the magical skills that voldemort values and the heritige that voldemort so desires, and that he believes no muggleborns or half-bloods can posess (how wrong he is). He also has a group of "secret police", namely the Death Eaters, who murders non-pure bloods in secret (for example, Amelia Bones) and carry out tasks such as the imperius curse and tortures. When Voldemort fell from power the first time some of his followers were brought to justice in the MoM Wizengamot but some evaded justice, just like some nazi followers. And just like Hitler, he dissapeared suddenly, with some thinking he was dead, and some thinking he was just pretending, or biding his time. (In actual truth we now know he was alive, but only just, and barely surviving, but that doesn't seem to have any relation to Hitler, just interesting to point out :D )

How did I remember all that information :o guess paying attention in History payed off.

If anyone was offended or such by anything I said, I apologize profusely, I was just making a point. :-)
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Postby Athena Appleton » Monday 7 August 2006 6:52:40am

Jaikai wrote:I think the Grindelwald theory is true, to be honest. It's too much of a coincidence. But I read somewhere or other that Voldemort himself posesses a lot of similarities to Hitler...

Hitler was thought to have a jewish father who deserted him (or died, can't remember) early on in life. He got rejected by a jewish girl in his teens, and so many other instances led him to hate jews. He also supposedly hated them because it was a self-denial that his father could possibly be a jew, and he couldn't stand that quality in himself, so he destroyed it in others. He was obsessed about creating a new race of Aryans, or "pure bloods". They had all the qualities and looks Hitler desired and that he believed no jew could possess. He had a group of secret police, the S.S, that murdered all those jews in secret, and carried out all of his sordid tasks. When Hitler was brought to justice, some of his secret police force were brought to the court and were killed, but some evaded justice. But the fact remained that Hitler somehow "disappeared". Some say he commited suicide, some say he pretended to be dead and was still alive, some say he was hung, I can't remember if any of them are true, but I know they were all rumours because he went missing.

Now...

Voldemort had a muggle father who abandoned him at an early age. He grew up hating muggles (once he had found out about his true parentage) but blamed his mother (this actually subliminally ties in with hitlers jewish school sweetheart). When he found out the truth about his father, he felt disgusted with himself for being part of that "filthy blood" family line, and obliterated what he hated in himself through killing his grandparents and father ect. He keeps the fact he is half-blood close to him, because he is in self-denial and ashamed about being related to a muggle, and so he went on to brew a phenominal hate for people who were everything he hates in himself. He is obsessed with creating a world full of "pure-bloods", who have all the magical skills that voldemort values and the heritige that voldemort so desires, and that he believes no muggleborns or half-bloods can posess (how wrong he is). He also has a group of "secret police", namely the Death Eaters, who murders non-pure bloods in secret (for example, Amelia Bones) and carry out tasks such as the imperius curse and tortures. When Voldemort fell from power the first time some of his followers were brought to justice in the MoM Wizengamot but some evaded justice, just like some nazi followers. And just like Hitler, he dissapeared suddenly, with some thinking he was dead, and some thinking he was just pretending, or biding his time. (In actual truth we now know he was alive, but only just, and barely surviving, but that doesn't seem to have any relation to Hitler, just interesting to point out :D )

How did I remember all that information :o guess paying attention in History payed off.

If anyone was offended or such by anything I said, I apologize profusely, I was just making a point. :-)



It's amazing how much people can hate people they really have something in common with. It would not shock me in the least to learn that Hitler's father was a Jew. He also hated same-gender-oriented people, and the STD's they are supposedly responsible for, and, whodathunkit, the man had an STD. Not only did he have one, he had the one disease that he railed on for pages about in Mien Kempf (I know I've messed that up, probably even got the wrong book altogether).

Voldemort's hatred for his own mother also apparently came from the fact that he considered her to be weak. One, she was for most of her life, considered to be near-squib level when it came to magic. She fell in love with a filthy muggle. And then she didn't use the power she had to keep living, even with a baby. There are exactly two factors that made her worth anything to him. She wasn't a muggle, so it was through her Voldemort got his powers. Also, and more importantly, she may have been a worthless witch, but she was a worthless witch with a direct bloodline from Salazar Slytherin himself, and Voldemort took great pride in that heritage.

A few other similarities: Not only did Hitler have his Nazis, he had the Nazi children, and they proved valuable to him. He was raising a generation of pure Aryans who would cast off the "outdated" beliefs of their parents and who underwent brainwashing of the most disgusting kind, and who would feel more loyalty for the Third Reich than they would anyone else, proving to be, in essence, tiny spies. Sound like a horrible little club started at Hogwarts for Slytherin brats? On the flip side, the majority of the Resistance Fighters in WW2 were very young. and their meetings very secretive. I think it's fair to compare them to DA.

Also, for many years, both evil guys were thwarted in what they wanted to do in life, making them more determined to get what they want, however they could, and also making them resentful of the people who stomp out their dreams. After WW1, I think I'm right in saying Hitler was prosecuted and had to serve time. In HBP, it's clear Voldemort's first career choice was not super-villian, but Hogwart's teacher. Now, I don't think he would ever have gone on to be teacher-of-the-year, seeing as he was already an evil 18-year-old, but the amount of anger he felt about that broken dream was out of proportion enough to make him overreact and take the path in life he already did.

Lastly, I know there is no possible way to ever prove this, but I wonder how much the victims' reaction to the Death Mark resembles the Jews and others who were tortured and killed in unimaginable ways and their feelings upon seeing a Swastika? I would imagine the two feelings could be VERY similar.
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Postby Hagger 9003 » Monday 18 September 2006 11:33:00am

well, i think its sufficient to say that voldy and waldy are connected, but im not sure how big of a connection it would be... i wouldnt be surprised if this will turn into a story about voldy's past. according to JKR we are going to learn about things that made him who he is, and made him such a driven and psychopathic person. a dark wizard who was killed when voldemort was just out of school. at that point, he was still vaguely normal, or at least was still trying to fit into society... mayb the defeat of grindelwald affected him? i dont think voldy would have served him though... not his style.

that DD point is reallly interesting, siana! how far did DD get with his alchemaic studies, i wonder... if nicholas flamel had already succeded, what was DD doing? i dont think he would have been aiming for immortality... something different sounds more appropiate. why else would DD work with flamel, someone who arguably has a greater understanding of alchemy than anyone else. alchemy could have other depths in JKRs world, maybe related to purity and such... sorry, im on a train of thought... what about lily, the potions nerd? i can almost see something here... but we're not quite there yet.
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Postby Chimera » Tuesday 19 September 2006 7:43:45am

Wow, a lot of WW2 stuff. OK firstly: Hitler's body was recovered by the Soviets. He had shot himself in the head and his soldiers had burned his body, he was identified through his dental records. Second: Hitler wasn't prosecuted after WW1, he was a corporal, someone far too junior to be held to account for the actions of a country. In actual fact he was rewarded, he recieved the Iron Cross for carrying his wounded platoon leader to safety.
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Postby Athena Appleton » Tuesday 19 September 2006 10:18:30pm

Chimera wrote:Wow, a lot of WW2 stuff. OK firstly: Hitler's body was recovered by the Soviets. He had shot himself in the head and his soldiers had burned his body, he was identified through his dental records. Second: Hitler wasn't prosecuted after WW1, he was a corporal, someone far too junior to be held to account for the actions of a country. In actual fact he was rewarded, he recieved the Iron Cross for carrying his wounded platoon leader to safety.


Help me out. I know Hitler was incarcerated for a short time in 1922 for a disturbance, and I'm looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Nazi_Timeline, a timeline of the Nazi party, and in December of 1924, it says that Hitler was released from the Landsberg Prison. Doesn't say when he went to prison, though. It is a known fact, though, that Hitler wrote Volum 1 o Mein Kampf (My Struggle) while in prison. http://fcit.usf.edu/Holocaust/timeline/nazirise.htm
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Postby Chimera » Wednesday 20 September 2006 7:50:16am

I think he was involved in some kind of street tactics, he'd been organising people around his aryan theories even before he'd crystallised those theories in Mein Kampf.
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Postby Athena Appleton » Thursday 21 September 2006 5:09:19pm

Yeah. It just occurred to me that when I put that he was incarcerated after WWI, that it would be taken that he was incarcerated BECAUSE of WWI, which he wasn't. I just meant that it was between the time WWI ended and he came to power.

At one time, I was an intelligent human being. Now, I'm not sure what happened. All I know is that a lot of history and stuff that I used to know like the back of my hand has fled from my mind, and I can't stop singing the Doodlebops theme song (from the Disney channel). I need a shrink. And a vacation. LOL
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