BOOK 7 IDEAS ON WHATS TO HAPPEN!

[Athena Appleton]

I dunno, I still feel Snape could turn out to be good somehow. I reckon Wormtail was sent to spy on Snape. I was reading the chapter Spinner's End again last night and I still feel that he's good.

I've asked this elsewhere, and I don't want it to be misread as I'm being impertinant, but what do all you folks who believe Snape's good say about the Unbreakable Vow and the fact that he killed Dumbledore himself? How does that make him good? The only answer I've ever gotton had something to do with Polyjuice Potion, and I find it unlikely to have another strong character be tricked into the same situation Mad-Eye Moody was, where his identity was stolen multiple times.

[Augusta Longbottom]

At this moment in time I am at a complete loss for real concrete answers, but one of my big reasons for thinking snape is still on the side of good is that it just seems too obvious that it should be as simple as that, that Snape is just bad. I know that this reasoning has no validity whatsoever...lol...but it's just opinion. But otherwise, some of my little inklings are this:

* We know Snape is working as a double agent...Dd believes he's working for him, LV believes he is working for him. Double agents always have to put themselves in compromised positions...If Snape had NOT made the unbreakable vow with Narcissa, right then and there it would be out that he wasn't working for LV. Would a spy blow their cover like that? Unlikely. So I think he had to make the vow regardless of the repercussions (sp?).

* The 2 key pieces of info we have yet to learn that would be the determining factor of whether Snape is good or bad, IMO are:
1. What is the EXACT reason DD trusts Snape. We know partially...but I think there is much more to it than that.
2. What were DD and Snape discussing when Hagrid overheard them? I think this is crucial, but of course we don't know more than what was in the book so we have to speculate.

* I feel certain that when DD requested Snape versus Madam Pomfrey when he and HP returned from the caves, I believe it is because Snape was expected to, by promise to DD, essentially take him out of his misery *if* need be vs trying to heal him which was what MP would have done. I think it was just "lucky" for Snape that he got to do it on the pretense of assisting Draco rather than via a potion or something in the privacy of his office had DD and him got to meet privately.

I realize this isn't convincing enough to sway you in any way, but the evidence that is shown in the book leaves it that it can go either way...that's why we're so split...half of us think Snape is good while the other half think he's bad.

I think that this aspect is what made this book so good...it has left people completely divided based on our own perceptions while reading the book!

For the record, I'm not buying the polyjuice theory either

[guesswhat]

The 7th book will definitely give more details about HP's parent, snape, and Black family. Especially why DD trusted Snape so much.
His parent, S.Black and DD' s are the most beloved people, thier death lay the ground for HP's determination. He is trying to kill LV for the sake of LOVE. In the previous books, he was able to get help every time he faced LV, Just review all the chapter which he and LV face to face against each other, He did not use his magic power to win, but his love, his loyalty. So the final battle will be the same, His mother and father, S. Black, DD, ...all the beloved ones who were killed by LV , together with his friends will all help him in thier ways. In the other word, his parent, S. Black and DD are all inside HP. That is why the author has to let the most importent people in his life die. His love to them will concentrate all their power to himself, so he can over power LV.

[Phoenix in the Ashes]

It's been seen enough that Voldemort's weakness is his inability to understand that there are things worse than death. I think Harry will have to prey on that somehow.

[Athena Appleton]

*sigh* I hate being out of the loop...

for the sake of my sanity (I'm in a house with ten people all vying for the computer, and I can't reread the whole interview again) didn't Rowling say in the mugglenet interview that the reason Dumbledore trusted Snape was just going off of what Snape said, and that Dumbledore is trusting to a fault?

I know Rowling is contstantly dropping hints and spinning mysteries, but I don't think there's ever a time that a character has flat-out lied as a way to throw us off track. I don't think she'd start by having Snape go through and explain in detail how he's really been evil the whole time, working for good, just to turn around and say JUST KIDDING in the seventh book.

Not to mention, even if Snape was working on Dumbledore's orders to stay on the good side of the bad side I don't think he meant for it to carry through to the point of swearing an oath so serious as an Unbreakable Vow to kill him.

Plus, even though he seemed to meet death in a heroic way, he seemed clearly surprised (or even almost hurt) when he realized Snape would be the one to do the deed. There wasn't ever a moment where Harry noticed a look in Dumbledore's eyes that said he had forseen Snape killing him. In fact, Harry is bothered by the pleading sound in Dumbldore's voice (and something tells me he wasn't pleading for his own death).

I understand there are LOTS of people out there who have always liked the Snape character, but I gotta say, any strong belief that he's still good, after the sixth book, just seems to be made up of interpretations of evil deeds and wishful thinking. There's no hard evidence right now that Snape is good.

[Phoenix in the Ashes]

There wasn't ever a moment where Harry noticed a look in Dumbledore's eyes that said he had forseen Snape killing him. In fact, Harry is bothered by the pleading sound in Dumbldore's voice (and something tells me he wasn't pleading for his own death).

Correct, there is absolutely no hard evidence out there to suggest it, and there probably won't be until the next book comes out, if at all. Saying that though, there have been things that have happened many times during the series that have been unexpected until then.
I for one, still think Snape is good, or at least not on Voldemort's side. Apparently, I am the only one that thinks that it's just too easy. For JKR to tell us all about Snape's nature in just chapter 2. Chapter 2! If JKR wanted us to think that Snape was really evil, all she would of had to do would be to cut out the Spinner's End chapter, or at least the part with the vow. Not permanently, just until nearer the end.
No, I think JKR did it deliberately early in the second chapter, so we would not be surprised at the end when Snape killed DD. There was and still is no doubt in my mind that Snape is on the side of good.
And, have you ever thought that DD was pleading, but not to save his life. I think he was pleading to save Draco's.

[Tanuki]

Like I stated recently, I think Snape is playing both sides for his own reasons. Maybe he just wants to gain recognition as the strongest and is waiting to let both sides kill each other

[Phoenix in the Ashes]

Possibly.
Still, if I was going to just wait for the two sides to kill each other, I wouldn't want to join both, You could very easily get caught up in the middle and blown to smithereens...

[Tanuki]

working for DD gave him the opportunity to kill him and working for Voldermort will give him the chance to kill him when Harry makes him mortal by Snape's point of view. Also remember two other points

1) nothing ventured nothing gained

2) Egotistical people who are playing both sides against each other tend to not think cautiously

[Athena Appleton]

There wasn't ever a moment where Harry noticed a look in Dumbledore's eyes that said he had forseen Snape killing him. In fact, Harry is bothered by the pleading sound in Dumbldore's voice (and something tells me he wasn't pleading for his own death).

Correct, there is absolutely no hard evidence out there to suggest it, and there probably won't be until the next book comes out, if at all. Saying that though, there have been things that have happened many times during the series that have been unexpected until then.

Unexpected, yes. Total falsifications, no. She's never had a character flat-out lie, which is what Snape would have been doing during the entire second chapter. *shrug* Let's just agree to disagree... I just can't see things working out that Snape is good.

And, have you ever thought that DD was pleading, but not to save his life. I think he was pleading to save Draco's.

Like I said somewhere else, that line of Dumbledore's is the only remotely convincing piece of evidence (in my opinion) that would prove that things weren't just as they seemed. But I think it's still a pretty flimsy piece of evidence.

[Dutchess42]

I'm not married to this idea but at this point I'm Still thinking:

That Snape is on the side of the Phoenix.

(To me it seemed obvious that he had no idea of what Narcissa was talking about at their meeting at Spinners End. He was on a fishing expedition there). I believe he learned what Draco's task was only just before (or even at) the meeting with Dumbledore by the forest. That it was because of the nature of Draco's task that he wanted to quit because he knew Draco would fail and he did not want to be the one to have to complete the task. That Dumbledore asked him, at the end, to do the necessary.

I don't think we'll find out what Snape did to prove to Dumbledore that he was on his side until Book Seven.

BUT I reserve the right to change my mind.

(One of the things that makes me doubt Snape is not from the books but from Rowling's interviews. She really seems to hate Snape)

[Enchanter]

Has anyone thought that even if Snape IS good that he would have a difficult time explaning it to others?He would never be able to convince Harry. Imagine the conversation!

Snape-"Oh no, I'm not evil. Dumbledore wanted me to kill him. Everyone knows it was his dearest ambition to be killed by me"

Harry- " Oh i knew you were always on my side. How would you like to adopt me?"

Snape- "oh i would love that"

[Athena Appleton]

I'm not married to this idea but at this point I'm Still thinking:

That Snape is on the side of the Phoenix.

(To me it seemed obvious that he had no idea of what Narcissa was talking about at their meeting at Spinners End. He was on a fishing expedition there). I believe he learned what Draco's task was only just before (or even at) the meeting with Dumbledore by the forest. That it was because of the nature of Draco's task that he wanted to quit because he knew Draco would fail and he did not want to be the one to have to complete the task. That Dumbledore asked him, at the end, to do the necessary.

I don't think we'll find out what Snape did to prove to Dumbledore that he was on his side until Book Seven.

BUT I reserve the right to change my mind.

(One of the things that makes me doubt Snape is not from the books but from Rowling's interviews. She really seems to hate Snape)

Well, that and the fact that she seemed genuinely surprised (or as much as she could seem, from just reading the words but not seeing facial expressions, etc.) that there are people who are still thinking Snape is good. (Her answer when asked flat-out if Snape is good was "Well, you've read the book, haven't you?")

It hadn't occurred to me that Snape was bluffing the whole time about knowing about the plan... still doesn't seem likely, but it's definately an interesting twist. I still think he could have gotton out of making a vow altogether. And I don't think Dumbledore would consider his own death "doing the necessary." As noble as Dumbledore is, I think the Order would be much more crippled by his death than by Snape's, and regardless of any personal feelings either way, he would side with what was best for the common good (him staying alive).

Has anyone thought that even if Snape IS good that he would have a difficult time explaning it to others?He would never be able to convince Harry. Imagine the conversation!

Snape-"Oh no, I'm not evil. Dumbledore wanted me to kill him. Everyone knows it was his dearest ambition to be killed by me"

Harry- " Oh i knew you were always on my side. How would you like to adopt me?"

Snape- "oh i would love that"

that would be an interesting conversation!

The thing to remember, whether Snape is on the side of the Order or not, he holds grudges, and he holds an especially strong grudge towards James and Sirius, and therefore towards Harry, because Harry is so much like them. Even if (and that's one BIG "if") Snape is still working for the Order, and this was all on some unexplainable Order thing, he will never ever ever have warm fuzzies for anyone, particularly Harry.

Something else occurred to me... ever noticed how all the major twisted plotlines are resolved within the book. Assuming for a moment he was good (and I am not saying I think he is), this would really be the first time there's been a MAJOR cliffhanger like that. Yes, of course there are many many things that have carried over, but:

In P/SS, you find out who the bad guy (Quirrell) is, exactly.

In CoS, you find out who the bad guy (Tom Riddle, age 16) is, exactly.

In PoA, you find out that Sirius is in fact innocent.

In GoF, you find out that Moody was the bad guy throughout the book.

In OotP, there was a slight turn from the "bad guy" stories (Umbridge was so obviously bad from the beginning).

I don't see that she'd leave something like that (Snape being good) left up in the air, having no closure. However, if you go with how things really appear to be (Snape being bad), you have closure at the end of the book.

Let us not forget, also, that he ran. Yeah, I know, he'd just not want to get in trouble with uninformed wizards for killing Dumbledore, but it does seem like Dumbledore would manage to find a way to make sure that someone else knew about what was going on and what could happen, to save Snape since he was following orders. But at the funeral, it's clear that no one expected him to have died.

[Phoenix in the Ashes]

Let us not forget, also, that he ran. Yeah, I know, he'd just not want to get in trouble with uninformed wizards for killing Dumbledore, but it does seem like Dumbledore would manage to find a way to make sure that someone else knew about what was going on and what could happen, to save Snape since he was following orders. But at the funeral, it's clear that no one expected him to have died.

As well as the uniformed wizards, there'd be the little problem of the Death Eaters. Voldemort expected Draco to fail, remember, therefore he expected Snape to do it in the end.
In ordering Draco to do the task he was basically ordering Snape, and he probably would've given Severus some other instructions if this were the case.
And who says a member or two of the OoTP doesn't know... Maybe one's just hiding the secret until Harry is ready to hear it.

[darkcloak]

Personally I think that Snape is, at the very least, not on the side of Voldemort.

I don't think that he knows what he is vowing to do in the second chapter but does so to convince Bellatrix (and word will get back to Voldemort I'm sure). Also I don't think he really knows what Malfoy is doing simply because he tries to read Malfoy's mind at the Christmas party and Malfoy blocks him. Why would he do that if knows what is going on?

On the lightning struck tower it's clear that Dumbledore will die whatever happens. If Snape didn't kill DD, then he himself would be killed by the vow, Malfoy would fail the test and either the other Death Eaters (especially Greyback) would finish DD off or he would die of the poison anyway without Snape's help.

Dumbledore's mercy saves Malfoy and Snape and also allows Snape to become much closer and trusted by Voldemort.