Explanations You Would Want Revealed by Book 6 (poll)

[Mistress Siana]

My problem with choices is not that you can't make everybody happy, but that, in the HP books, some choices have to be made under very questionable circumstances. The strict separation of houses leads to children, who don't have a fully developed personality yet and who could turn out every possible way depending on their further development, being labled and put into a drawer for the rest of their lives. And most of the times, the decision is not even made or influenced by themselves, as not everyone has information about the houses before sorting. The sorting hat breeds heroes, like Harry, and evilness, like Voldemort. Both have very similar traits, Gryffindor and Slytherin in generyl have very similar traits, and yet a dumb enchanted hat somewhat decides their future at the age of eleven, and that within mere seconds. I think that Mr Weasley's statement "never trust a thing that can think for itself if you can't see where its brain is" is very, very wise. A shame noone takes it seriously.

[Hagger 9003]

thats a very good point siana. people do kinda ignore the hat. tradition is hard to remove. almost impossible, which is why i think that hogwarts and the wizard world as a whole are pretty much irreparable. there has been too much prejudice, and it is too deep rooted. DD is fighting it, but it is a losing battle. however, i think that DD is at least doing a bit, spreading his message, and sometimes it holds. but i think prejudice is natural for the wizards, because people are so prejudiced against them. they were treated as complete freaks, and burned. that caused people to be prejudiced many years ago in the wizarding community. when you are bullied, you bully others. look at snape. prejudice just grows and grows, like a cancer, and right now, the wizarding community has gone too far. DD is a doctor, trying to remove the cancer, but it is nearly impossible. it has spread too far. the wizarding community is even more prejudiced than the one we live in, and thats saying something.

but, as you said, the hat makes heroes as well as villains. and when the world has heroes, it does have hope. but i cant see much hope, especially when the hero is as prejudiced as lots of the normal people. dividing creates troubles, but it creates solutions as well. if there was no prejudice, the world would be fair. it would be a flat, expressionless, humourless world. that is why i think that prejudice wont go away. and, if it did, it would be unnatural.

thanks cedric!

[Cedric]

wow, that was very deep. and i just wanted to post something up cause its my 100th...but continue cause this is getting deeper and deeper as we go along!

[Tanuki]

Don't blame the hat. Responsability can only be placed on one person, the self. the children are given every opportuity to choose their own path. The hat only places them in a room, their behavior models the choice, not the other way around. Also, the hat doesn't even like seperating students, but you can't blame the hat for the prejudice. Even then, Lucious Malfoy was considered a model citizen (he wasn't one, but he played the part and no one thought to reconsider it outside of those people who knew him), so public opinion doesn't really change the opinion on Slytherin's outside of the school. If anything, the kids choose their friends and become dark on their own

[Mistress Siana]

Don't blame the hat. Responsability can only be placed on one person, the self. the children are given every opportuity to choose their own path. The hat only places them in a room, their behavior models the choice, not the other way around.

Yes, yes, yes, but they're eleven! Think back to how you were a week after your eleventh birthday and tell me if you could have made a decision that would influence your life then and be happy with it now. And I certainly don't blame an old piece of fabric, I blame a society that puts the future of their children into the hands of an old piece of fabric.

True, Hagger, as long as there are heroes, there is hope - for society. No hope for the "evil", certainly. Did Tom Riddle have a choice to become anything else but Voldemort? I don't accept that his future was already written when the sorting hat was put on his hand. What if he had been sorted elsewhere, or if there was no sorting at all? Dumbledore speaks of choices, but how many choices are there, really? It's like batman, at first sight, there's good fighting evil, but if you look closer, evil is no more than a creature (accidentally) bred by the "good".

Siana, Devil's advocate

[Tanuki]

Even an 11 year old is responsable for their actions. By eleven you should know right from wrong.

Tom Riddle always had a choice, and he took the one he wanted. He's no victim. He had every intention of becoming the person he is when he first entered the school no doubt. Harry has a childhood just as bad as Voldermort's, but he's turning out very different, isnt he. Were he in ravenclaw, hufflepuff or Gryphindor, he would still be the same person, drawn to the same people and acting almost the same way. The sorting hat looks at who you are and places you with people you are most likely to get along with; but he wasn't barred from speaking to other people. He wasn't holed up in the common room, not allowed to speak to other people. He was free to interact with others, but preferred to stick to dark wizarding types and eventually become Voldermort.

[Mistress Siana]

Since when do you believe in the freedeom of choices, Tanuki? I think we have different opinions on that matter, I do get your point, but I still say that, at eleven, you are no person.
Yes, Harry is turning out very different from Voldemort, and I think that this is to a very great deal based on the fact that he jugded the houses before sorting, not on the fact that he is a better person.

[Imelyen]

The hat only analyzed their potential..it didnt say "I want you to save the world, but hmm, i dont like this guy over here so he can be an evil guy."...All it did was place them with other people with similar traits, people who they would most likely get along with...If Malfoy were placed in Gryffindor he would still be a spoiled little snot, he would not just up and change his personality (and yes, by 11 you do have a personality no matter how often it will change in your teenage years).

[Mistress Siana]

Did you know the age psychologists say the development the personality is finished? 40. You have basic character traits at the age of eleven, but that's it. That's not my personal opinion that's a scientific fact.
I didn't say the sorting hat 'chooses to make people evil', I say that, if a child's development is influenced to such a great deal, you run the risk that the outcome is dangerous. It's way too easy to say we are defined by our choices, because our environment to some extend influences our decisions. Dumbledore does a little 'black and white painting' here, and I think so does JKR.

[Hagger 9003]

the point about it is that the hat changes peoples lifes. it choses their friends, their motives, even their favourite colour. the kids have no choice themselves. sure, they have personality. they dont kno enought at that age though. they will have been told what all the houses are like, and been scared by the rumours. harry got into gryffindor because he had heard bad things about slytherin, and didnt want to go into it. the choice of his life was made by the fact that he had a prejudice. however, you could argue he had a small choice. if he had liked malfoy, or thought that he was a person he should be near to do well, he would not have had the same prejudice. he might well have been in slytherin.

i want to say somthin tanuki. i dont think that harry had such a bad childhood compared to voldie. harry didnt have so many people in the orphanage. being teased by one person is bad enough, but at the orphanage, i imagine that young tom was bullied in many ways. believe me, there doesnt need to be a reason. in british schools like that, it is terrible. i was in one, and it is cruelty. i saw someone being teased for no reason, apart from the fact that everyone thought that he was poor, or lived in a bad place. im not even sure how it started, but soon everyone was teasing him, jeering and being cruel. once, someone said "i can see your house from here", pointing at a small shed in hte middle of a bramble patch. i think that voldie experienced things like that, but worse. he had a short traumatic childhood before the orphanage, lost both parents, one due to death, the other because of apathy. alone, unwanted, he ended up in an orphanage, where he would have been daily subjected to torture and cruelty. his magic powers would single him out, and that would start the heckling, jeering, fights, and overall hatred, with no real reason. voldie had good reason to be what he was, and so he is understandable. he made choices after all this, but that was it. i dont think anyone could recover after that. and, he chose not to.

[Cedric]

The only reason Harry wasn't put into Slytherin was because he asked the hat not to. He and Voldemort are very similar with similar childhoods. I'm sure Harry was picked on at school too! His clothes were always 3x as big as he was and his hair was always messy, he was different. So was Voldemort.

Tanuki

Tom Riddle always had a choice, and he took the one he wanted. He's no victim. He had every intention of becoming the person he is when he first entered the school no doubt. Harry has a childhood just as bad as Voldermort's, but he's turning out very different, isnt he. Were he in ravenclaw, hufflepuff or Gryphindor, he would still be the same person, drawn to the same people and acting almost the same way. The sorting hat looks at who you are and places you with people you are most likely to get along with; but he wasn't barred from speaking to other people. He wasn't holed up in the common room, not allowed to speak to other people. He was free to interact with others, but preferred to stick to dark wizarding types and eventually become Voldermort.

This is such a good opinion and it is what I'm trying to say. We are what we choose to be. The hat sees this and places is where we see ourselves in the future even if we don't realize it yet.

[Phoenix in the Ashes]

Were he in ravenclaw, hufflepuff or Gryphindor, he would still be the same person, drawn to the same people and acting almost the same way.

I wonder how much difference being put in a house makes to a person. In the day and age Harry Potter is set, it obviously matters as it changes your opinion of people if they're in a different house.

[Mistress Siana]

Were he in ravenclaw, hufflepuff or Gryphindor, he would still be the same person, drawn to the same people and acting almost the same way.

If that was the case, what sense would houses make then? Quidditch?

[Tanuki]

Since when do you believe in the freedeom of choices, Tanuki? I think we have different opinions on that matter, I do get your point, but I still say that, at eleven, you are no person.
Yes, Harry is turning out very different from Voldemort, and I think that this is to a very great deal based on the fact that he jugded the houses before sorting, not on the fact that he is a better person.

What are you at eleven then? I think we don't give children enough credit. I think that people do grow a lot in their teen years, but your personality is still well formed by 11. To say they aren't persons is to say that they are neither important, nor valid. Do you honestly believe Voldermort would have turned out different had he been in Gryphindor? Can you honestly say that 11 year olds are nothing more than puppets, influenced by peer pressure? Because, that is what you just said. I have seen 11 year olds for very stubborn, individual personalities. I grew up in a very specific type of neighborhood, yet I never became like them; a fact I am very proud of). This is how I believe in choice. I believe very much in choice. It's changes in personality that I don't believe.

the point about it is that the hat changes peoples lifes. it choses their friends, their motives, even their favourite colour. the kids have no choice themselves. sure, they have personality. they dont kno enought at that age though. they will have been told what all the houses are like, and been scared by the rumours. harry got into gryffindor because he had heard bad things about slytherin,

So, why isn't harry in Hufflepuff or Ravenclaw if he only didn't want to get into Slytherin? He did not ask to be put in Gryphindor, he only asked not to be put in Slytherin. He made a choice based on the people he knew. Last time I checked, wearing your house colors doesn't mean they're your favorite color. It just means you have pride in your house. Harry wears green to the ball in the fourth book, yet he's not in SLytherin...strange by your opinion. I figured he would have had no choice and been wearing red.

if he had liked malfoy, or thought that he was a person he should be near to do well

If he had likesd Malfoy, his personality would have been totally different person, so of course his house would have been different. The house doesn't change your personality. It only looks at your personality and puts you with people of like mind. Does that occour to you? Harry, Hermione and Ron have many things in common. Draco, Crab Goyle, and Pansy have very similar perosnalities and were placed in Slytherin. Had it been a school with no houses, do you honestly believe any of them would be friends, or even any different from who they are now?

Also, saying they don't know enough is basically saying they are idiots and need to have all their decisions made for them

On bullying, that's everywhere, whether subtle or not. Harry wasn't just bullied, he was beaten, confined, starved, spoken down to, ignored, maltreated, hated. He was kept from having any sort of fun because he wasn't Dudley, and wasn't even allowed to have friends. How is his childhood any different from Riddles. Harry didn't have any friends either and he was probably bullied by other kids because Diddly wanted them to, to make him miserable. How is this not as bad as Voldermort's Being in a nice house, and having to sleep in a cupboard. You're trying to take responsability away from Voldermort, excuse him from his actions. That's a lousy way to think. Other children probably had it as bad. He chose to be evil, just like Harry had to choose not to let the Dursleys get too far into him.

You people also assume Slytherin makes people evil. There are probably good Slytherin's who have a respect for the law and erro nthge side of riteousness. When she talks about the Slytherin's, its always "many slytherin's" or "a group of Slytherins". I have never seen "all the Slytherins' at any point in the books. Stop trying to downplay a child's personality, because its insulting to every one who was ever 11. Kids aren't automitons, not mindless zombies to be directed; they are people, inexperienced people, but people nonetheless

[Hagger 9003]

Ok, tanuki, please calm down. just think for a minute. at the age of 11, suddenly, you get a letter. your future life has been changed, a whole new universe has appeared right before your eyes. when you get something new like that, you change. trust me, at the age of 13, i moved to holland. my life and personality has changed beyond recognition. 11 is just before puberty, when your life, and mind and body changes greatly. personality changes at that time as well. being a boy, i kno how harry feels, bein uprooted and chucked into a parallel universe, where evrything works differently. not as extreme as what he experienced, but it changed me greatly. i was a loner, now i am not. i used never to chat to people, now i always do. some things didnt change, but lots of things did. voldie and harry had a big change in their life. i am not saying they are idiots, i am saying that they have not experienced much. please, stop assuming evrything from what i am saying!! i believe that children need to know things. but if you make a decision without knowing about it, it wont be a decision. children have not had a chance to know many things. some do, granted, but most dont. and most of the children in england dont.
you dont know quite what i am talking about with this bullying. the most cruel thing in the world are children. they cant help it, but they have less of an idea of right and wrong. there are different types of bullying. there is the kind that doesnt last for long, and there is the kid who everyone teases, insults, beats up, for no real reason. harry wasnt always like that. i think that mainly he was not liked. he could always escape to his cupboard, and he was quite fast. there was a gang of kids who beat him up. in an orphanage, you never leave. there is no safe haven, no privacy. you retreat inside yourself, and think. voldie thought alot about all he knew about his family. hatred fostered, so did anger. he probably just wanted to right the wrongs against slytherin. there are alot of them. salazaar was chucked out, and the other houses dont like them. those wrongs should be righted. but, he went the wrong way about it. he chose the dark arts, and they changed him. he chose power, which corrupted him.
look, i think no group of people are evil. you cant generalise things as individual as human beings. can all slytherins stop thinking that the world hates them !?!?!? the world doesnt!! the world doesnt ok? you are just normal people. you dont need to act like no one likes you. they do. you dont need to act like everyone hates you. they dont. loosen up.