Narcissa/Death Eaters at the Quidditch World Cup

[Mistress Siana]

There's been a lot of speculation what Narcissa Malfoy is like, if she's a mere trophy wife or rather a strong woman (which her sisters seem to be). Now, I think that if you read the Dark Mark chapter in GoF again, it's pretty likely that she's also a Death Eater and took part in the muggle torturing after the Quidditch World Cup.
We know from Voldemort that Lucius was responsible for the Death Eater march at the QWC. He attended the game with Narcissa and Draco. When Harry, Ron and Hermione flee into the woods, they meet a very relaxed Draco, leaning against a tree, alone. If only Lucius was part of the gang, where was Narcissa? I doubt she would have just gone home and let her son watch as her husband anounced the return of the Death Eaters. Btw, Harry also suspects both of Draco's parents to be part of the Death Eater group, and Draco just smiles.

And: Have you noticed that the only Death Eaters that Voldemort addresses with their first names are Lucius and Bellatrix? Yes, you can assume that those two are maybe the closest to him, but it could have a fully practical reason. It wouldn't be very usefull to call the Lestranges by their last name, as there are three of them. It would only lead to confusion. Lucius follows the same pattern when addressing his fellow DEs, only last names, excpet for the Lestranges. So, perhaps the fact that Voldemort addresses Lucius with his first name means that there are more DEs with the name Malfoy?

And one more thing about the Death Eaters at the QWC (It's really a scene worth re-reading). Don't you find it scary how exactly it matches Snape's worst memory? JKR put quite an emphasis on the fact the one member of the group turned a poor muggle upside down, presenting her knickers, with the same spell James used on Snape. Now, considering the fact that Snape tends to treat people exactly the same way he was treated as a child, it certainly brings up the question where dear Severus was that night. Actually, I find it likely that he was part of the group. Surely Lucius would have asked his "lap dog", no?
Even if that's not the case, the resemblance is scary. It shows that the methods of a 15-year-old James Potter were the same as that of a group of sadistic dark wizards, and also how people tend to watch and laugh rather than help. Except for Lily and Hermione, that is.


Yeay, that's one long post!

[Tanuki]

Why is it that when people see James do what Snape remembers, they are fully intent on placing him in the same light as death eaters. Have people forgotten what he was like in later life, or what people say about Snape at the same age? This wasn't some random bullying that was one way...this was a feud. It's just that James had the better victory that time. Considering his penchant for dark magic, we can only assume the sort of horrid things Snape did and laughs about

[Hagger 9003]

yeh, james does deserve respect for turning around. but, he was a complete and utter idiotic moron. like most kids at that age, aka me!! however, that is an amazing similarity between the two scenes. nice point, siana.

Narcissa is kinda confusing. i really dont kno about her. considering the rest of the blacks, she should be very headstrong, but this series often tries to show that blood is not important. so, maybe she isnt. however, where did she go during hte quidditch cup riot? i would think of her as the sort of parent who is quite far away, and who doesnt care for her son much. she was probably somewhere safe, either at the mansion, or in a tent. but if she was in their mansion, what happened to draco? how did he get back, with lucius running away, and Narcissa hiding? i dunno.

i dunno about the surname thing. i reckon that, since bella and lucius are important death eaters, they are refered to by their first names. bella has the most faith, and lucius has the most influence. Narcissa seems to calm to be a death eater

[Mistress Siana]

i would think of her as the sort of parent who is quite far away, and who doesnt care for her son much. she was probably somewhere safe, either at the mansion, or in a tent.

No way. Lucius always wanted Draco to go to Durmstrang, but Narcissa insisted on having him closer to her. She had the last word, obviously. And she frequently sends him cookies.

[Mistress Siana]

Ah, and I never said Snape was just an innocent schoolboy, did I? I'm sure he was quite the opposite. Remember the spell he, in return, used on James which left a deep, bloody cut on James's cheek? I'd consider that a great deal more aggressive than a mouthful of soap. There's something else I noticed, looking at that scene: The spells James and Sirius were merely -not all, mind you, but mostly, and those who weren't were harmless- spells the student learn in Defense against the Dark Arts. Snape's jinx was not defense, it was attack. There's also a difference between James's and Sirius's behaviour, as Sirius (rather uncharacteristically) merely defended James.
Actually, by mentioning the similarities, I merely wanted to say that I think it's likely that Snape was part of the DE gang. But possibly, it's really even more to that scene. It's a blueprint of the war, everyone represented a way to act in a war: Attack, defend, pervert defense into attack, cheer, be coward, be indifferent, speak up against the violence but remain unheard.

[Phinea Rogue]

I was just typing a long post and... it's gone!

Well, to sum it up (what I wanted to say). It's a scary similarity between that scene in GoF and Snape's worst memory. Was he the one "playing" with the poor muggles? I think that Voldemort later says that it was Lucius (I'll need to check the books), but Snape could have been there. If it was Lucius, why did he use that spell? And why didn't we see Snape watching the match?

When after his return, Voldemort addresses the DEs, he talks nearly to everyone. He talks to Avery, to Lucius, Grabbe and Goyle, Nott... But there are some DEs whose names he doesn't say and he doesn't speak to them. Who are they? Why does he want to keep their names a secret? If there's Narcissa too, Lucius surely knows it (Or doesn't he? That would be strange if he didn't know...), but the others may not know her being one of them -- why would Voldie want to keep that a secret? Does she have some special role?

[Mistress Siana]

Yes, Lucius was confirmed to be the instigator, but there were four people torturing the muggle familiy. One of them used the same spell James used on Snape, the other three were kind of playing puppets on a string. I guess we didn't see whether Snape was there because Harry and the Weasleys had special ministry seats, even the Malfoys were only there because the made an exceptionally high donation to St. Mungo's.

Old Voldie is quite fond of being cryptic, isn't he? I've always wondered why he doesn't seem to want certain names to be known, he didn't even tell his Death Eaters who he wants to see dead. Maybe it's just JKR building up suspense, but who knows?

[Just Mom]

You know, this is so interesting because right after I joined this forum a couple of years ago, some of us had a similar discussion and I predicted then that Narcissa, with Lucius out of commission for a bit, might be a more formidable enemy than he ever was. Men can be vicious. Women, and I am one, can be even worse, I'm sorry to say. We don't have the same loyalty to each other that males have and it makes it easier to be brutal.

Explain to me again Siana, the connections between Voldemort and the use of last names minus the three Lestranges. I'm not sure I got all of that. Thanks also for the tip from GoF. I'm going to reread that section now.

[Mistress Siana]

I also remember that discussion. I always found it rather dangerous to think of Narcissa as a mere trophy wife, and the revelation that she's a Black only confirms that opinion. About the name thing:

I've noticed that the Death Eaters are usually addressed with their last names, as well by Voldemort as by the other Death Eaters. It's always Crabbe, Goyle, Avary etc. The only ones that were ever addressed with their given names are Lucius and the Lestranges. It certainly makes sense to say "Bellatrix" and not "Lestrange", as there are two other Death Eaters with that name. But why isn't Lucius called Malfoy? My guess was that it is for the same reason, namely to avoid confusion, because there is another Malfoy in Voldemort's rows.

[thestral]

from what i remember (i really need to reread a few bits) i never thought of her as a harmless trophy wife, she seemed to me like she was a calculating...female dog. yes someone said she was too calm. but i makes sense that she didn't go in all guns ablazing, cos she's a woman and women grow more vindictive over time. men have a macho tendency to blow up there and then women sit back and think about it more. she seems like she's a manipulator, a much more dangerous enemy. she was definitly cold and calculating and i think we've yet to see the worst of her. like the most dangerous villain (arguably) in literature was Iago in Othello and he took his time and was a an opportunist. he was a manipulator and i think they can be much more dangerous than a normal violent macho man show of physical cruelty, power etc.

P.S- not all women are evil, there are just more smart women than smart men

[Just Mom]

The last name routine makes sense because it is actually a habit in military circles. Having once been in the military, I remember well how hard it was to get used to being called by my last name only, and doing the same with others. As you noted Siana, the only reason for not using a last name is when there is more than one in LV's "army" that has that name too.

I'm always so impressed by your keen powers of observation!

[Tanuki]

I think Lucious is called by his first name is because he is right in Voldys inner circle. It wouldn't make sense to call the people you know well by their last name

P.S- not all women are evil, there are just more smart women than smart men

Say something like this again and my opinion of you wont ever recover. That is rude and sexist, as a man I take personal offence anyone judging men as either stupid or immature

Granted Narcissa might just be a death eater, but I don't see her being very active at all in planning anything or action. I think she's more the type to soak up the position than to actually work after all, that's what servants are for. Control the brain and the muscle, and you have a whole body under control, and you barely have to lift a finger... evil genius 100

[thestral]

yes but sometimes women are paticularly good at getting other people to do the dirty work for them. there haven't been any real hints as to what she's really like, so maybe i'm reading into things too much, and perhaps she is just a secondary character but maybe with lucius in azkaban (for how long though?) she could become more prominent.

and i apologise profusly and sincerly, tanuki, i'm just going through a bitter man-bashing phase, link it up to our discussion of ron/hermy and i'm sure you'll understand why.

[Phoenix in the Ashes]

I never thought of it before, but it does seem pretty obvious that Narcissa could be a Death Eater, though what job she does I wouldn't know. In either case, she must have taken a pledge to LV, saying (or proving) she won't tell anyone about her husband's identity.
I think I read somewhere else down this page, that LV wouldn't surely call Lucius by his last name, like everybody else. I daren't think they are on first-name basis. The only reason he wouldn't call him Malfoy, is because there might be another. I think someone else has said that, and it's a valid point.

[Mistress Siana]

I think Lucious is called by his first name is because he is right in Voldys inner circle. It wouldn't make sense to call the people you know well by their last name

He's just as much in Voldemort's inner circle as Avery, Mulciber, Macnair, Crabbe, Goyle and so on are. He is in command of his DE group, but there's no sign that he means more to Voldemort. Actually, if I were Voldemort, I wouldn't trust Lucius all too much, at least not with my life or something. Lucius is clearly a great supporter of his views, and always willing to promote pureblood ideas. But Lucius is also an opportunist. He'll betray anything if it saves his skin.