Sirius's Death in Question

[Augusta Longbottom]

Rev Mom, I'm so glad you're back and have shared some very sound comments in your recent posts. I read each of the posts you wrote today and with everyone I sat here nodding in agreement with everything you had to say. I agree with each thing you said in each post you responded to. I am probably only a tad younger than you. Oftentimes when I read one of the rumors or theories out there, I think to myself, there's no way JKR would ever do *this* or *that* because she not only writes from a certain perspective, but because as a mother of small children I think she will always write in such a way to be in the best interest of young readers. I don't think she plays it *too* safe, but knows how to balance what to do to keep the older readers (young adults to us older folks) on the edge of our seats, but to also keep younger readers inspired and not too scared or disappointed with what's to come.

So glad you're back with your wonderful points of view. The board has been a bit quiet lately, but I hope you'll continue to pop in as often as you can!

[Errol]

Well, I am off kind of off topic but... What if Sirius saw something that he could not believe(his shocked face), and then he took his eyes off of Belatrix, then she hit him with the stunning spell.

All I can think of is, what made him looked so shocked? Was it something Lupin or Malfoy was doing, was it something that only Sirius could see from his point of view?

I still think it would be a very cool twist to the story if someone Harry thought was on his side, was actually on the other side.

[Nightcrawler]

Well, obviously Sirius wasn't expecting to be hit, so perhaps that is why he looked shocked. Something unexpected happened.

Then again, if the spell was a stunner (like someone mentioned bofore), perhaps the spell is designed to induce all the symptoms of shock/stun, including a shocked/stunned (same thing, really) expression on ones face.

[Broccoli]

I re-read teh scene yesterday ans I think Harry would have noticed it if the spell had come from some-one else. Sirius and Belatrix were the only ones fighting.

As for Dumbledore: Sirius' death occurs just after his arrival, so it's interesting... But I doubt very much that DD is bad.

[Just Mom]

Wow. What nice comments from divabeadz! Thank you for the welcome-back. I'm into my last two weeks on a master's degree and just haven't had time to post since the summer. Now that I have a tiny bit more time on my hands...

I really do think too much is being made of the shocked look. Like divabeadz succinctly stated, JKR is the mother of children, (a preteen/teen, a toddler, and one in utero) and she will write from a perspective that protects children while not playing it too safe. She won't set up characters -in fact she hasn't thus far- that are going to become too contrary to what has already been displayed.

I think it is quite possible that she will have difficult characters -like Snape- reveal a higher, more tender side by the time it's all over, and of course her easy-to-love characters will make mistakes, but there won't be giant swings. What would that say to young people? She is, from her first profession, a teacher at heart. She writes like a teacher. And she's trying to gently teach as well as entertain with the books. One of the first things she said in response to the accusations that the books were too dark (Harry's parents die) is that life can be very hard and some of those realities cannot be hidden from children. I can't see her though, having characters like Dumbledore and Lupin who are so obviously very good, become singularly evil and untrustworthy. What message does she send in that? That all qualities of good we are taught to recognize as children can't be trusted? I truly don't think, given her books are primarily designed for young people 8-12 years of age, she's going to go there. That's a bit too dark. I would venture to say though that there will be characters either already introduced or to be introduced that make the reader uneasy although it's hard to know why, and that she will delve into the realm of instinct and intuition which in kids, can be quite good.

[Phinea Rogue]

I think it is quite possible that she will have difficult characters -like Snape- reveal a higher, more tender side by the time it's all over, and of course her easy-to-love characters will make mistakes, but there won't be giant swings. What would that say to young people? She is, from her first profession, a teacher at heart. She writes like a teacher. And she's trying to gently teach as well as entertain with the books. One of the first things she said in response to the accusations that the books were too dark (Harry's parents die) is that life can be very hard and some of those realities cannot be hidden from children. I can't see her though, having characters like Dumbledore and Lupin who are so obviously very good, become singularly evil and untrustworthy. What message does she send in that? That all qualities of good we are taught to recognize as children can't be trusted? I truly don't think, given her books are primarily designed for young people 8-12 years of age, she's going to go there. That's a bit too dark. I would venture to say though that there will be characters either already introduced or to be introduced that make the reader uneasy although it's hard to know why, and that she will delve into the realm of instinct and intuition which in kids, can be quite good.

Hmm, I agree with that. First of all, though many adults read these books, it's a book for children/teens and these kinds of books have some... "rules", I can say (e.g. that good should win over evil and similar stuff). Making Lupin evil would be really interesting and quite a twist in the story, but I suppose that Sirius had that shocked look simply because he was hit. Wouldn't you be shocked to be hit? To me he seemed like not expecting it, as if he didn't think that Bellatrix was good enough to beat him in something and so he was really surprised she managed to hit him.

[thestral]

hey everybody, sorry new at this, first post and all but i was thinking that if lupin was going to kill sirius, it doesn't seem like it would be for voldemort, but maybe because he was jealous of sirius's father role to harry. so maybe he would kill sirius to become the most important fater figure in harry's life again, becuase in book 3 before harry found out about sirius it was looking like lupin was becoming a fater figure to harry and maybe he wanted that back. and he was the one that stopped harry running after sirius, he was instantly there with harry. although i really hope it isn't true and don't really think it is it seems more likely he would betray sirius for harry's love than voldemort's support or whatever it is that voldemort could give him. i'm not making any sense. sorry. and ahh damn fangled technology! don't know what i'm doing yet!!!

[Mint]

Aw, dont worry Thestral!! You are doing just fine!

Yeah, I can see what you are saying. It seems that, just like for Sirius, Harry becomes the only connection to Potters, to those wonderful memories Lupin has. And I wonder if Lupin had to choose between Harry and Sirius who he would go for. (i think harry).

But Lupin is a smart and reasonable man so I don't see him being driven by the feelings of jealousy. (at least I got a sense of him being smart and reasonable, do you guys agree?)

[Just Mom]

The only time Lupin would-I believe- kill anyone at all, even an enemy when he's not a werewolf, is in a fight to preserve what is good and right and true. He's far too reasonable and humble to be jealous of Sirius' relationship to Harry because he was a close friend when the Potter's made Sirius Harry's godfather. JKR hasn't written this but it wouldn't surprise me if Sirius was not the first choice for godfather, that Lupin probably was and Lupin fearing himself more than anyone else, turned it down to protect Harry. Lupin would have reasoned with James and Lily that Sirius was a better choice, "He's not a werewolf and he has money." Lupin knows his life is going to be nothing but wandering and poverty, but his heart is wonderful. This is one reason JKR loves him so much. Remember, Sirius is a bit on the rash/arrogant side although still a good-hearted guy. So far, the only time Lupin is rash is when he's a werewolf and unaware of his actions.

[thestral]

yup i agree totally with what you guys are saying. I don't really think lupin would kill sirius, that's so out of character from what we know of him that it would be like voldemort sending harry get well soon flowers (sorry i tried to kill you a gazillion times can we please be friends?). really just throwing out another viewpoint other than lupin in league with voldemort theory. i think lupin is the good guy of the books (well one of many good guys!). he always does what is best for harry and other people. i don't thiink he would do anyhing to make another person miserable (especially harry) and to make himself happy. he seems totally selfless. have i mentioned i love lupin? I LOVE LUPIN!!!

[Just Mom]

Golly. Have I mentioned I love Lupin too? I even loved the casting of David Thewlis as Lupin in PoA. He was just right, not too handsome, but with a certain warmth, humility and sincerity. Lupin is probably the most down-to-earth character in the series.

But seriously (and Siriusly) I was on the JKR site last night fooling around trying to get those eggs and feathers and whatnot and read some of JKR's scribblings about various things. I can't remember exactly what she said, but in one place when asked about Sirius, she pointed out that Sirius was wonderful but reckless, a little on the arrogant side, impulsive, "embittered," and that would fit right in with the look of surprise when he was hit before he died. People like that, don't usually see something like death coming their way. I'm sure Sirius thought since he'd survived 12 years in Azkaban, he was fairly invincible. And in a similar place she talks about Lupin being her favorite and just speaks of him as such a great character. There's no way Lupin can possess that much of the author's affection and be a bad guy in disguise. I think she has bigger plans for him as the series wraps up.

[thestral]

we haven't actually seen or heard of lupin too much since PoA so i think now that harry needs him more than ever now with no sirius he'll play a much bigger part in th last two books. like you said i think JKR has bigger things in mind for lupin. although i'm still going to miss sirius, it's not fair!!WHY WHY??!!! i know that's probably been said, written, wept through bitter tears a million times on this site so i don't actually expect an answer. although JKR did say at some point, can't remember where, that it would be explained at some point and that it did happen for a reason.

[Just Mom]

Your idea about Lupin playing a bigger part now that Sirius is gone, is a great one Thestral. Very well thought out and it makes perfect sense. Do you really think that Sirius is gone forever? It seems hard for me to believe as well and I've wondered if we won't see him again in a portrait or something although Lupin probably will play a bigger part. What do you think?

[Errol]

I made up a theory once, that a portrait of Sirius was lying around somewhere, and Harry would stumble across it and either see Sirius there, or have to do some kind of spell for Sirius to appear there...

[thestral]

I think that Lupin will become Harry's new father figure, but like you i also can't believe that sirius is really gone for good. It's just that the way he died served no purpose at all. It was pointless and even though i didn't want a sirius dying in harry's arms death scene if he died i thought it would have been for a reason, like who else in the books has died.. harry's parents died to save harry, cedric's death sort of symbolised the return of voldemort you know his first victim and all. but sirius? i fell through a curtain???!!! (i'm bitter can you tell? lol! )

no i don't think we've seen the end of sirius yet. I just don't have a clue how he'll return the best bet i can think of is something to do with the mirror. Although i'm looking forward to reading more of lupin, him and harry have a real obi-wan/skywalker thing, they're very philosophical and wise together.