There was Someone else there! (HUGE!!!)

[selene]

maybe he didn't know
according to what snape said to bella he was at hogwaerts on lv orders. so what if peter turned after that? what if peter turned from a simple spy to de after snape was at hogwaerts?
i don't know if this makes any sense

[darkcloak]

Maybe R.A.B was there?

[redhead_723]

Hang on a minute, if Snape had already turned against LV before his downfall, but was a double agent rather than leaving the DE's altogether, why didn't he warn everyone that Peter was a traitor? He never even told DD about Peter beng a DE, that seems like something he would have divuldged if he was truly reformed.

Thats a good point but it could be that he really didnt know that it was Peter who told LV where they lived. He very well could have thought that it was Sirius who told, especially if he wasn't there for the actual telling. If he was already going to the Potters he wouldnt know that Peter had told LV and would therefore just assume that it had been Sirius like everyone else was saying.

I'm not sure if that made sense but it made sense in my head.

[Froggs]

Well, has everyone assumed that Snape was one of the missing places in LV's circle in GoF? (I have) And if he was, wouldn't he have known that Sirius was/wasn't a death eater? And didn't Peter enter the circle after he had his golden arm put on? So Snape would have known that Peter was a DE, if Peter was part of the original circle...I am not sure that he was. Do you think the DE's don't know who is who because of the masks? LV called some of them by name, so it didn't seem to be a big secret.

[Augusta Longbottom]

I don't think PP *was* a DE. I think his first foray into the dark side was betraying Lily and James.

[Snow_Crystal]

I read about that as well.

I think whoever was with LV when it happened, was there as backup for LV in case something should happen..and it they were there as backup then LV would have trusted them (like he trusted Snape) or had them under the Imperius spell (like Peter Pettigrew).

My view is that it was Peter Pettigrew because how else did LV get his wand back from PP in GOF. PP must have stored the wand somewhere so that when he could return he would have his wand.

Or it could be someone completely way out like Olivander..! Joke but you never know with JKR

[Dutchess42]

Didn't it say somewhere that it was the horror of the Potters' deaths that turned Snape against LV? In which case he could have been at the Potters without LV knowing.

Wormtail may not have been a DE before he divulged the secret? Plausable.

[Snow_Crystal]

Plausable but possibly unlikely. I think he would have had to build up some loyalty to LV to want to go to the lengths he had to to bring him back.

The weakness of all the DE's is that they want to be the best DE and to have the closest connection to LV - for e.g. Bellatrix keeps telling as many people as possible that she is the one that LV trusts the most. They are all in denial in a way and possibly secretly know that they can never be the most favoured one.

Wormtail went to the lengths he went to, in an attempt to be the most favoured one - hope this makes sense..!

[thestral]

no, wormtail had been a servant of LV for a year before betraying lily and james, i quote sirius's screaming at wormtail:

"YOU'D BEEN PASSING INFORMATION TO HIM FOR A YEAR BEFORE LILY AND JAMES DIED! YOU WERE HIS SPY!"

i miss sirius...

[Dutchess42]

Oh yeah. I'd forgotten about that.

[Snow_Crystal]

i miss sirius...

I miss him too. there's no-one else like him now and although I like Lupin he's just not the same.

[Fantasy girl]

ok ok, we must consider that if snape new LV was going to the potters, he should have also known that wormtail was a double crosser, but he din't, or that is what we are led to believe in the books.

[Fantasy girl]

i miss sirus too. every time i read that part, i cry. maybe he will come back. but that's another topic

[Person1]

But now, is Sirus gone?

Remember what Luna Lovegood says near the end of OotP that she could talk to them again..Something along the lines of "Couldn't you hear them, just beyond the veil?" Although he may be dead, there still may be a way of communicating.

[Snow_Crystal]

Some say there may be a portrait of him at Grimauld Place...and there might be another mirror...I'm hoping but somehow not clinging onto that hope... I never know whether to believe Luna or not as she lives in her own fantasy world but something was definitely behind that veil and I still want to know what!!

By the way getting back, I said earlier in this thread that PP must have built up some loyalty to LV but I'm not sure that's right. I think PP was under the Imperius for a year before Lily and James died and if you are under the Imperius you are not doing stuff of your own free will.. ..so when he passed that info to LV he didn't mean to (or at least so he said)...

Also in GoF, Wormtail didn't join the circle he was inside it. If he was a DE wouldn't he have returned to his place after he got his hand. I think he only searched for LV because he had nowhere else to go, he'd been sprung and was after protection. The only person who would do that would be LV because he had once passed information to him. It is interesting though because when Wormtail found him, you would have thought that LV would have reprimanded him because the situation Wormtail put him in cost him his body, but I guess that was made up for because Wormtail helped him regain his body - make sense

One thing that goes against this is that in PoA, I think he calls him the Dark Lord - a term only used by DE's.