Voldemort vs. Voldemort?

[Mistress Siana]

I've been wondering a lot about Tom Riddle's diary. What exactly was Voldemort's intention when he created it? Open the CoS, right. But did he intend for his sixteen-year-old self to leave the pages? And what would Riddle have done if his plan had succeeded, go to Albania and resurrect his future self? Basically, my problem is this: would two Voldemorts be allies or concurrents? I mean, of course one would be stronger with the other around, but still they'd be two different persons with exactly the same personality. It's a strange question, but...would Lord Voldemort ever accept somebody as completely equal or even superior? If not, two Voldemorts would be a problem. And I don't think he would, even if that somebody was himself. I can't bring myself to believe that he would want a clone of him around...so I wonder...did Voldemort expect his Horcrux(es) to have a life of their own, to a point where they can exist completely independent from himself? Persons of their own, and just as powerful, ambitious and afraid of death as he is? Was diary!Tom a threat to Lord Voldemort rather than an ally? And what does that mean for his other Horcruxes, do they too have a life of their own?

[annachie]

What an interesting idea.

I mean we know there would be trouble between the two. Vlody is nothing if not Top Dog, and wants everybody to know it. There's no way he would ever accept anybody as his equal, not him.

[Snow_Crystal]

Maybe he intended his younger self to gain a body and live to come and find his split soul so that they could be reforged???

[annachie]

Since he was only 16 when he made it, maybe he never intended for his younger self to be able to come out of the diary.

[Mistress Siana]

Maybe he intended his younger self to gain a body and live to come and find his split soul so that they could be reforged???

Then why split it off in the first place? Voldemort certainly did not count on being reduced to a spirit for 13 years.

[Snow_Crystal]

But you've hit the nail on the head. Yes why did he split his soul in the first place

He split his soul in several pieces to safeguard his future existence. By splitting the soul it could not be destroyed in one go. It being divided into several objects meant that he did not have all his eggs in one basket - he split the risk of his existence.

However as he split his soul, there must be a way to reuse it if need be as there would be no point otherwise.

I agree he did not expect to be left as a spirit for so many years but he was relying on his DE's to restore him in one way or another. The fact that they didn't is another matter.

[Mistress Siana]

Hm, yes, sure, I didn't question that, but would he want his younger self ti come out of the diary for it? And would Tom Riddle really have done as expected? I mean, Tom would have gained nothing from it. As far as he is concerned, he is Voldemort.

Another question is: he's a part of Voldemort's soul. Would the other Horcruxes work for him too? Should be the case, right?

[Snow_Crystal]

Hi, sorry I'm not sure I get what you mean. I think I'm being a dill here

I think LV would want his younger self to re-emerge from the diary as his power could not be fully restored without a body of his own - hence his return in GoF - that was his ultimate goal I think.

In terms of Tom doing as expected, what do you think was expected of him? As TR/LV are one and the same the other horcruxes must surely work.

I find the whole business very confusing and JKR is in danger of getting pulled up on loopholes because us fans tend to really challenge this stuff.

The thing that gets me is, when a horcrux is created, does it take a bit of your soul as it is at the time the horcrux is created. ie was TR/LV limited to creating the diary horcrux to his age/soul at the time. Surely horcruxes are not smart enough to learn the future of that person.. this also begs the question are some of his horcruxes more powerful than other horcruxes he created? I mean he gained more power as he got older didn't he.

[annachie]

You know, I'm not sure that being without a soul makes you dead, but I suspect that if your soul is physically locked to this plane of existance, you can't die. (I remember some comments about the dementors kiss saying similar. Have to look it up)

Whay I mean is that I am starting to think that Voldy doesn't have to use up a Horcrux to come back alive or re-create his body or whatever. But meerly by them existing, he can't actually die.

Hence the need to destroy them before he can be killed.

[Snow_Crystal]

Yeah I totally agree. I'm not sure horcruxes get used up like a cat's 9 lives, but I do think that when a horcrux is destroyed that part of the soul is lost forever and therefore there's one less bit to worry about.

[Mistress Siana]

I agree too. I don't think you have to 'use the Horcuxes up' or something, but that seems to be a popular theory from what I've heard.

In terms of Tom doing as expected, what do you think was expected of him? As TR/LV are one and the same the other horcruxes must surely work.

Yeah, that's the problem. They're the same person. Now, Voldemort is a spirit without a body, stripped of all his powers, while Tom Riddle's powers are intact. What could Tom gain from reviving him? They're made of the same soul, yeah, but does that grant Tom's loyality? I don't think so.

[Alexandra]

well lucius sent diary to hogwarts without Voldemort knowing that
i think voldemort planned to open cos and hogwarts would be closed
that part of his soul was planned to stay in diary and control that huge snake but voldemort was dead so diary made his own plans
he knew that voldemort was in some hamster so the diary wanted to recover power
by diary i mean part of the soul
this is so confusing

[Simatra]

Well, if LV killed LV what would happen to LV?

[Alexandra]

That could never happen because they think same way and they would both die in the same time.

[selene]

would voldy kill another part of in the first place?

i don't think they would both die, i'm not even sure they would think entirely the same way, especially since the horcruxes weren't made at the same time
[quote="Snow_Tiger"]The thing that gets me is, when a horcrux is created, does it take a bit of your soul as it is at the time the horcrux is created. ie was TR/LV limited to creating the diary horcrux to his age/soul at the time. Surely horcruxes are not smart enough to learn the future of that person.. this also begs the question are some of his horcruxes more powerful than other horcruxes he created? I mean he gained more power as he got older didn't he.[/quote]
i think this is a very theory on that part