Dumbledore's Worst Memories

[D.A. Member]

(I don't think I've seen this topic anywhere else but if you know of a different place then lock this up and send me in the right direction )

I was wondering if DD was to give Harry his next Occlumency Lessons, which memories would he not want Harry to see? Also, REVERIE thought of some great questions.
1. What does DD's Patronus look like?
2. What would DD see if he saw a boggart?

I think that obviously DD would take out the memory of Harry's parents death but what else? DD doesn't seem like he is afraid of anything. I'll really have to think about that.

[Reverie Revenge]

Thx, dear D.A. Member!

Hope not to spoil other's imagination, but I've got some vague ideas about it ... now with your provocation I deffinitelly gotta have some and I'll try to avoid the cliche ones

DD's Patronus first (it's easier ):
*maybe not a golden but a silvery Phoenix
*Griffindor's sword (again, not golden but silver )
*Harry Potter himself , just like he is
*a wollen sock (for a bigfoot ) (not to steal ideas: I think I've read the sock thing somewhere else, but in connection with house elves ... )
*joke: Phineas Nigellus wearing a muzzle to shut his serpent's mouth

DD's Boggart:
*Voldie brandishing Griffindor's sword (sorry for the sword fetish, it's not entirely my fault but in the time of the Founders a sword had a function of nowadays muggle cell phone )
*joke: Harry staying together with Cho (= hysterical idiot! )
*Voldie learns to love --> this means Harry's power of love is no longer Harry's advantage, that both have it
*his own death before Voldie is defeated
*joke: DD has to sleep barefoot, b/c he's run out of wollen socks

DD's worse memories:
*first, I don't think they contain Harry's parents death - if so, this means DD was witnessing their death
*loads of cruelty from the period of Voldie's first rise (sth. like concetration camps, of massive killings)
*maybe another, even more gruesome, prophecy that completes the one from the book 5
*Wizengamot trial when Sirius got his Azkaban sentence --> this one is my fav! In the end of book 5 Harry actually blamed DD for Sirius' death!!!

[TDM]

ah, but you're forgetting one little thing about DD's worst memory, Reverie. Sirius never had a trial. says so in Book 4. anyway, i'd agree that the phoenix is his Patronus. boggart, prolly LV killing harry. worst memory...prolly anything. he's old, so that's a lot of stuff to remember.

[Reverie Revenge]

Sirius never had a trial. says so in Book 4.

WHAT?! Really? Was he sent in Azkaban without proof that he was guilty? It happens in real life, too often , but where is it in the book? I mean, it's good reference to real life and everytrhing, but I can't remember it and I'm sure I would notice such social critique ...

And I got idea for another Dumbledore's worst fear: human stupidity! But it comes in soooooo many forms - poor Boggart would have a difficult dilemma

[Athena Appleton]

Sirius never had a trial. says so in Book 4.

WHAT?! Really? Was he sent in Azkaban without proof that he was guilty? It happens in real life, too often , but where is it in the book? I mean, it's good reference to real life and everytrhing, but I can't remember it and I'm sure I would notice such social critique ...

'pparently not. Check in Goblet of Fire, in the chapter "Padfoot Returns."

Sirius shook his head and said, "She's got the measure of Crouch better than you have, Ron. If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals.
He ran his hand over his unshaven face, evidently thinking hard.
"All these absences of Barty Crouch's...he goes to the trouble of making sure his house-elf saves him a seat at the Quidditch World Cup, but doesn't bother to turn up and watch. He works very hard to reinstate the Triwizard Tounament, and then stops coming to that, too....It's not like Crouch. If he's ever taken a day off worse because of illness before this, I'll eat Buckbeak."
"D'you know Crouch then?" said Harry.
Sirius's face darkened. He suddenly looked as menacing as he had the night when Harry first met him, the night when Harry still believed Sirius to be a murderer.
"Oh, I know Crouch alright," he said quietly. He was the one who gave the order for me to be sent to Azkaban -- without a trial."

On a different note, I really don't think Dumbledore will be teaching Harry Occlumency anymore. Either he will have spoken to Snape about it, convincing him of how important it would be for Snape to teach him, or Harry won't take it at all. But I don't think a sword can be a patronus (even a magical one... so far we know of no object patronuses, only animals), nor do I think Harry is Dumbledore's patronus, because... well, because that just doesn't make much sense if you ask me. About Dumbledore's worst memory, seeing as he's 150 years old, odds are it's not something we've read about in the past 5 years. He defeated the great dark wizard Grindelwald, so something like that could have something to do with his worst memory. Since Voldemort is only considered the most powerful dark wizard in a century (I think that's in Chamber of Secrets), then it's quite possible that Grindelwald was even more powerful and more evil than Voldemort was, depending on when Dumbledore defeated him.

Rowling's made it quite clear on her website that Voldemort will not turn good, so it's not likely that Dumbledore's boggart would be Voldemort learning to love. Besides, if Voldemort learned to love, that would hinder him as much or more as it would Harry: he wouldn't have the ability to be a powerful dark wizard that way. On your boggart ideas, I'll go with one of them: Voldemort brandishing Gryffindor's sword. The others... well, the others made me nervous when you only put "joke:" in front of a few of them.

I think we should stop expecting to see another prophesy, at least another one that's been around for a while. If Dumbledore knew about another prophesy involving Harry, I would think he would have shared that, too, because he was finally realizing that he couldn't go on hiding things like that from Harry.

[TDM]

ah, but Grindelwald was defeated in 1941, about 30-40 years before Voldy came into power. therefore, Voldy was more powerful.

back on subject, Athena beat me to posting the quote son Sirius, so that's really all i have to say.

[Athena Appleton]

Man, I'm losing my touch! I shoulda remembered that!

Anyway... well, there's still all kinds of unknown things that could be Dumbledore's worst memory. To be honest, I don't really see that it's something that will ever be revealed to us, so it doesn't make a ton of sense to wonder what it will be if it never becomes a part of the story... too much we don't know about Dumbledore. *shrug* just my opinion, though.

[choki]

Worst Memories
Every man is bound to have some bad memories including the greatest wizards, Dumbledore and Voldemort.

Something must have happened to Tom in his teens that led him to the wrong path. Perhaps bad memories about growing up in an orphanage. Remember, his childhood was kind of similiar to Harry's. Tom didn't knew anything about him being a wizard before Hogwarts life.

As for Dumbledore...perhaps a sad past...linked to Grindelwald...maybe his prospective wife was murdered before the wedding date

Boggart's form
Given both their remarkable magic skills, I doubt a boggart could even fool them. The boggart might not even get a chance to transform into anything before it is blown to smithereen (by Voldemort's action )

[harrylover]

ah, but Grindelwald was defeated in 1941, about 30-40 years before Voldy came into power. therefore, Voldy was more powerful.

I think he was defeated in 1945, wasn´t he????

[TDM]

hmm...i thought it was 1941. either way, it's still only 30-40 years.

[Athena Appleton]

yeah... still could be Dumbledore's worst memory, though... I mean, what if Voldemort is only narrowly the worst dark wizard in a century? Even if he is by far, someone could still be REALLY bad but still not be as evil as Voldemort (much the same way as someone these days could kill 100,000 people and say "It's not like I'm Hitler or anything... now he was bad!"... after all, people would agree that a man who killed 100,000 people isn't exactly an upstanding citizen, even if he's not the worst person to ever have lived)...

[Gypsy]

Thedragonmaster-it was 1945. I remember because people suggested a link between Grindelwald's defeat and Hitler's death i.e. they could be the same person

[pallas artemis]

I'm a little late on this but

On a different note, I really don't think Dumbledore will be teaching Harry Occlumency anymore. Either he will have spoken to Snape about it, convincing him of how important it would be for Snape to teach him, or Harry won't take it at all.

Occlumency seems like it would be a good thing for Harry to know even after book five so I don't see why DD wouldn't have Harry taking lessons. And didn't DD say that the only reason he didn't give Harry the lessons in the first place was because he was afraid LV would use Harry to get to him or visa-versa

[Reverie Revenge]

yeah... still could be Dumbledore's worst memory, though... I mean, what if Voldemort is only narrowly the worst dark wizard in a century? Even if he is by far, someone could still be REALLY bad but still not be as evil as Voldemort (much the same way as someone these days could kill 100,000 people and say "It's not like I'm Hitler or anything... now he was bad!"

DD himself said there were almost as terrible wizards as Voldie - his supporters. But DD meant more thier evilness than their power, though some DEs are very powerful.

Also Sirius said to Harry's head in floopowder conversation that ''the world is not split into good people and Death Eaters'' --> I loved this quote no black + white stuff , everything is grey.

[Athena Appleton]

Yeah, I love that quote... it's so true (even in our mundane muggle world).

That particular quote is also what makes me believe that Snape and Harry's relationship will never be better than it is right now. Even though she's writing a story with many elements of fantasy, she is determined to write human nature as it is. Her books seem to have two things going for it that most books don't: first, her main character, a child, is growing up. That's not something that's usually done. Most authors write a story about a child, and if it's a success, they keep writing about that same child, but never have them get any older. In interviews, Rowling has said it's a moral issue with her not to do that. Also, her heroes and villains are (almost always) very complex and have a depth not often seen in other books, particular in other children's books. Almost all of her bad guys have motives, and there are many people who, like Sirius says, are neither "good" nor "bad".

sorry for the rambling...