Choices

[Alice I]

We are bound by the choices we make in life and the responsibilities that come from those choices.

I chose to marry Bill and to have children.
I am now bound to my fate and because of the responsibility I have to my children I will not take the easy way out even though it has occurred to me more than once.
Children need both parents so I will not grant Bill a divorce. He also made an oath that fateful day 11 years ago. When we promised to stay together until death due us part it was a real promise that was sworn in the presence of God, our families and all of our friends. My heart will eventually die trapped in a loveless marriage but that is the fate that my choices have condemned me to.

I have tried to find the bright side to my life and the choices I have made, and sometimes I actually succeed. I do not wish for riches or fame; neither of which I have any hope of attaining anyway. I no longer even wish for good health; something that seems to be denied me. I wish only to endure long enough to see my children grow and make better choices than I have.

I am thankful for the friendships I have made here but this can not replace the joy that has been lost to me.
My only advice to you all is to be wise in the choices you make for once you swear an oath, you are honor bound to keep it even unto the death of your soul.

[Krum]

What do you mran by "loveless" marrige?
And I think the most important choice you have made is giving your husband children and the children-a loving mother

[Won Wheezy]

But, Alice I - you need to look after yourself too. Don't reduce yourself to being a wife and mother, of course you need to be there for your kids, but you have to make yourself happy as well. Maybe it's easy for me to say, cause I'm not religious at all. But in my opinion it's better for kids to grow up with happily divorced parents than in an unhappy marriage. My parents got divorced as I was four and they stayed friends, so I never had a huge problem with it. If you keep going like that you might risk getting seriously depressed and not be able to be such a good mother for your kids.
You have to lead your life the way you think is right for you, but don't think the only reason for you to be there is to raise your children - you are a great person and you deserve to be happy. I wish you all the happiness in this world and make a decision that's right for you.

HUGS, Tina

[TDM]

well, i am religious, and a very strong Catholic, and Catholics are not supposed to believe in divorce, but it depends on the situation. some people are not meant to be together. but there was a purpose in getting married in the first place. you have children, and like Won said, sometimes a happy divorce is better than an unhappy marraige. because if you and your husband are not happy, that will transfer to the kids, who, depending on their age, might think that it's their fault that the family is unhappy. so, more problems erupt out of that. but, i do have hope that people can make anything work. so, hopefully you can work out your problems with Bill and everything will turn out fine. either way, i wish you the best of luck, Alice.

TDM

[pallas artemis]

I also am a religious person and understand your oath in marriage. However even in the Bible there are exceptions where a divorce is exceptible. I can't remember all of the cases in which a divorce is acceptible but I know one is infidelity(sp). I have to say that if the situation gets bad enough I think it might be best for all of you to get a divorce but I also admire your resolve to accept the consequences for your actions

Keep your head up

[Evil Wizard Petting Zoo]

Wow, Alice, that is very admirable. You are in the same situation my mom is in, my mom and my dad really didn't like each other at all a long time ago (I was about 4). My dad drank sometimes and my mom would take me to a motel room and we would spend the night there. I don't remember much of it because I was so little, but my mom didn't want to divorce because she wanted me to grow up with both parents. And she stuck it out and my dad stopped drinking and they get along well now. So my advice is: stick it out, things will get better. And I totally agree with staying together because of the oath yall made infront of God, your family and friends 11 yrs ago.

[Alice I]

First of all I want to thank you all for your words of support and encouragement.
I was unsure whether or not I should post this but I am glad that I did.

What do you mran by "loveless" marrige?

What I mean is I do not feel that Bill loves me anymore. Some times I wonder if he ever did.
He speaks to me as though I were unintelligent. If I ask him a question his response is usually short and clipped as though I was an irritation to him and I get the distinct feeling that he is annoyed by me asking what he considers stupid questions.

But in my opinion it's better for kids to grow up with happily divorced parents than in an unhappy marriage.

Maybe it is my faith or just pure stubbornness but I can’t go back on a promise. I feel like a failure in so many things that I simply can not add that to the list. I said I would stick with him through thick and thin and this is a very large patch of “thick”

I can't remember all of the cases in which a divorce is acceptible but I know one is infidelity(sp).

This would not be the case here. Bill wouldn’t go with anyone else.

My dad drank sometimes

This is part of the problem. Bill is currently averaging 8 -10 beers a night. He gets home from work at 5:00 and usually goes to bed by 11 or 12. I have known him for almost 14 years now and his drinking has always gone in cycles. He will have good periods and bad ones. Now he is on the low end of that cycle so I am sure that is part of it. I have given up trying to get him to stop or to admit to alcoholism. He refuses to believe that he has a problem and unless he accepts it I can do nothing.

I am very glad that I have you folks here at B&O. I won’t disappear altogether from the forum but my heart is kind of dead right now so I won’t be much fun.
I can’t decide if I want to cry or scream in anger. What I really want to do is go to sleep and never wake up but that simply isn’t an option at the moment. My opinion of everything is kind of skewed just now so I will try not to ramble.

Thank you sincerely for the support. It really means a lot to me.

[Won Wheezy]

What does he reply if you try to talk to him? This sounds so terrible, you have to do something about it. I didn't mean you should get a divorce straight away, don't get me wrong. But if he doesn't make an effort to save this marriage, why should you suffer?

[Barry Trotter]

first of all i'd like to hug you alice I *HUG*

you helped me so much throughout my problem, you;re such an amazing person and you have so much to offer and to benifit from yourself.

i agree with won, i know i dont know bill but i think i may know afew "bill"types. I'm sure he does still love you, he may not notice how rude he is towards you. It could just be that he isn't going through a very happy spell and feels that around you he can truly be himself, which may mean snapping?

i'm useless at all this but i can be a good listener and often talking things over or just telling someone else about a problem can make it somehow easier to cope with.

If things with him really don't get any better soon i would strongly advise maybe a temporary seperation. it would let you both get some perspective and you'd probbably find that he would soon get his act together.

I can understand your reasoning for wanting to stick it out, but you have to think of yourself in all this as well. I agree that kids need a dad and a mum wherever possible but they need a happy confident mum. If they don't then they may not grow up to be happy and confident either. Kids can sense unhappiness its something thats built in.

Ok worst case for you is that you get a divorce right? well if you did infact get one, your children would still have both parents. and both parents would be happy and content. they wouldnt see mummy upset because of daddys drinking. They'd just see mummy and daddy as seperate people with seperate lives, joined by the most wonderful thing on the planet. Them.

Like i said i'm pretty rubbish at offering adivice. so you can tell me to shove it if you like. just know i'm here for you if you need someone to talk to ( or at)

good luck
baz x

[Alice I]

I could never get a divorce, I can not go against my beliefs even though my situation is unpleasant at this time. I am not talking about religious beliefs either, because even though I am Catholic I don't live and die by their rules, just my own.

My best friends are happy well adjusted people but they grew up in a household where one parent was stiffled by the other. Amy and Alice's (my friends) father made a terrible mistake when he married their mother because she was selfish and as it turned out; insane. She was a poor mother and an even worse wife but Mr. Hentschel acknowledged his responsibility to keep the vows he made regardless of how things ultimatly turned out.
We all used to privately wish that she would pre-decease him so that he could have some peace in the last years of his life but that is not what happened.
Mr. Hentschel died several years before his wife so he was never free of his mistake but as he died he told Alice that he never regretted having any of his children (There were 8 of them) and that they made his life worth the struggles he endured.
I admired Paul Hentschel more than any other person I have ever met because of his steadfast resolve to stand by his word and his promise. His children made his life good and that is the last thing he said to Ale.

My children make my life worth living too. With out them ...

... well lets not go there.

Bill and I will eventually work out our problems and if we can't then so be it.
I was feeling VERY low the night I posted this thread and I am truely sorry if I alarmed anyone.
My heart has rule over me and it speaks more loudly than my mind sometimes. I am sorry I sounded so melodramatic, I can't help it. I am a drama queen *smirk*

It is true that Bill has a problem. I think he is meaner to me when he has been drinking and the other night he had had ten already and was working on his 11th when we had the fight. The abuse is mental not physical so please no one worry for my safety.

Thank you again for your comments of support. It means the world to me it really does.
I feel like you folks are my special B&O family and I know that I can turn to you guys when I am feeling so low.
Thank you all.

[Violet]

I agree with what others have said and think that it is very admirable what you are doing, and shows so much love for your children to not even consider divorce even though there may come a time when it would mean that you are happier being apart from bill.
I lost my father when i was 8, and my mum and step-dad divorced when i was 12 and i lost my godfather to cancer this past christmas. I fell that i have never really had a strong male role model in my life, however i dont feel that i have come out any the worse for it. Whereas many of my friends have had to live with their parents in a loveless marriage which has left them very unhappy.
I guess all i'm trying to say is that you not only have to consider the idea that your children need both parents (which they could have even if you dont live together), but also what makes you happy.
i really hope everything starts to get better *hugs*
take care x x x

[choki]

My friend once said to me that she doesn't believe in ever lasting love between husband and wife, but she believes in the ever lasting love a parent has for his/her child.

All kids yearn to have a happy family, complete with both parents. I'm not too sure about the norm about divorce in the Western, but all I can say is that divorce in the Eastern (Asia) is not so common, though it is rising nowadays. Perhaps the older generation are the conservative people. I definitely don't see my parents kissing each other...(I don't think I did in my 20 years of life )

Tolerance is the key word in marriage I guess. After all, you have been married to Bill for 11 years. You know, guys are a little bit insensitive. He might not even know what is going on in your mind now.

[pallas artemis]

Bill is currently averaging 8 -10 beers a night. He gets home from work at 5:00 and usually goes to bed by 11 or 12. I have known him for almost 14 years now and his drinking has always gone in cycles. He will have good periods and bad ones. Now he is on the low end of that cycle so I am sure that is part of it. I have given up trying to get him to stop or to admit to alcoholism. He refuses to believe that he has a problem and unless he accepts it I can do nothing.

A ray of hope
My dad chewed tobacco since before I was born. He had started because my mom wouldn't allow him to smoke(which was something he grew up with) around the children. We tried to get him to quit chewing for about fifteen years. He'd try and end up so grouchy and moody that we'd break down and go buy him some. About six years ago we gave up trying. Then, about two years ago my dad announced one day that he hadn't been chewing for six months. He had simply decided that it wasn't what god would want him to do and quit. We didn't even notice
Bill may very likely do the same and just decide for himself that its wrong. the thing is if you push him it won't work he has to make up his own mind and then the jobs half done.

MEN

[Courtney Piddle]

tollerence is a big part of any relationship, but so is happiness.

if you're going to stick with it then good luck and you are in my thoughts, if you know in your heart you can make it work then i dont think you should give up but if there really is no hope then you have to consider what is best for you and your children?

[Alice I]

I feel like the biggest whiney idiot! I swear I am just a soppy melodramatic fool.
I go on ranting about how much my husband doesn’t really love me and then he goes and does something to make me eat those words in a rather big way.

He had taken all of our wedding photos and scanned them into the computer. Then he arranged them into a book complete with headings like
Alice at the House
The Girls
The Guys
The Limo
The Procession
At the Alter etc…

Then he uploaded the entire thing to the internet and had a company print it as a lovely full color, hard cover book! This was his anniversary gift to me only it didn’t arrive until yesterday. Our Anniversary was this past Saturday.
The amount of time and thought that he put into this just astounds me! Why then; does he talk to me as though I were an imbecile? Am I being an insecure, over sensitive drama queen!? Some one, I think it was EWPZ, said that her dad was a heavy drinker. Maybe the behavior I am protesting is only when he drinks but that is every day so how can I feel so unloved by him but then he turns around and does something so incredibly thoughtful?!?!
I feel unbelievably stupid and petty right now and I wish I hadn’t gone off on him the way I did here in St. Mungos.
What would he say if he saw this thread?
He would have every right to look me square in the face and say “What a jerk!”

I am so confused; why would he say he wants a divorce when all the while he is working on something like this. I mean this book is incredible! It must have taken him a long time to put it all together!

Well suffice it to say I sit here covered in egg and feeling rather churlish.