SPEW

[Alice I]

'fame is a fickle friend alice, celebrity is as celebrity does'

[Alice I]

'fame is a fickle friend alice, celebrity is as celebrity does'

[Nobby]

i thought you would appreciate that!

[Nightcrawler]

Dumbledore reminds me of Santa Claus.


I really like the fact that he is paying Dobby. It is very symbolic, Hermione even comments that Dobby's wages are crappy but the ammount of money is completely besides the point. The point is, he is being paid for his services. He has freedom. It creates a sense of equality between Dobby and Dumbledore. That is what is important. I'm sure that sense of equality is available to all house-elves, but they just don't want it. That is why Hermione should stop, (or at least rethink) SPEW. She is forcing her opinion on the house elves who just don't want it.

By all means she should educate them and show them how great freedom is, but forcing freedom onto somone defeats the whole purpose. She needs to let them make up their own mind.

[Mint]

do u think that may be the SPEW will still exist, but Hermoine will grow up and change it into, as Nightcrawler pointed out, education for house elves? (like telling them that they do have options)

[Alice I]

I hope not.
I am sick of the whole SPEW thing. I can't understand why JKR put it in the books in the first place.
She doesn't do things without a purpose so I am sure that it will surface it's head again somehow.
I must admit that I only glanced through the chapter entitled
The House Elf Liberation Front in OotP, as I felt the same way as someone else said on this thread that all the SPEW stuff was a waist of pages.
*Shrugs*
Oh well we can't all like everything right?

[Nobby]

like hermione says in 'Careers Advice'- 'i'd like to take SPEW further'. jk will have a nice ending for spew- i can feel it

[Athena Appleton]

I saw a movie last night (or rather, yesterday morning, say, around 4:30 a.m.) called "Mona Lisa Smile".

When I was watching it, I was thinking "Oh great. Another woman empowerment movie that will make me feel like poo because I chose to stay at home and raise a family rather than going to grad school and being a career woman." Then Julia Stiles's character said something that I loved, that Julia Roberts's character had a preconceived notion of what a housewife was, just like she thought housewives had a preconceived notion of what a working woman was.

It's kinda like that with Hermione, the elves, and SPEW. She wants them to see what's best for them, but only if they agree with her about what's best for them. The person who is disrespecting the house-elves the most, I think, is Hermione, because she's taking what they're telling her to her face and acting as if they couldn't possibly know what they're talking about, they ARE upset, dadgummit. Well, she's wronging them just as much by not admitting that her ideas of what they want may not be in tune with what they really want.

I hope SPEW ends, and I hope SPEW ends quickly.

[Cougie]

Although the elves like it the way they are, things can change.
Hermione could one day end up on a wizard card describing her as the witch who freed all elves.

[Moonstone]

Or destroyed them.. maby she is a bit too eger to free them..

[Athena Appleton]

I think the only thing that really needs to change is that the elves should have the option to do something other than be slaves, or to be paid, or whatever... But if it's truly their nature to serve, then they shouldn't be disrespected by being forced out of that situation.

[Reverie Revenge]

Though I'm radicaly feministic I think some of you are confusing women rights vs. elves rights I don't think theese issues have much in common. They maybe had parallels a century ago.

Elves are physically enslaved (till they get the clothes) but as for women - in Europe, AU, USA at least: we don't have to wait to be given socks We just have to do what we enjoy the most. If Athena wants to raise the kids it's the most important that raising kids fulfils her as being all rebellious and for women domination fulfills me Anyway, we have a multichoice.
Elves don't have a choice, most of them have never experienced other live than cleaning So they don't know about many other great possibilities at all That's what Hermione should tell them - show them other options and give them free will to decide what they want But Hermione is way too bossy to be that liberal She may carry SPEW on after the graduation but she should try another approach, sth. like soft management. Tyraniy is Voldie's domain, after all

[Athena Appleton]

I guess I kinda see what you're saying...

But consider this.

As a stay-at-home mom, I'm constantly feeling like people look down on me because I chose to be a stay-at-home mom, and I like it. Few people really believe that a person who supports women's rights to work would actually choose to stay at home all day and change diapers, watch Sesame Street, do laundry and cook dinner. And I do get offended when these people act as though I'm uneducated about the other possibilities out there.

I think that's kind of how the elves might feel towards Hermione. What if the Hogwarts elves, at least, actually like what they do, but she's unable to see that the elves would actually choose to be cooking and cleaning.

I believe that as women, while we should definately have the right to work if we want, there is an instinct there that is different than in men, that compells us more to want to nurture our children. If we choose to make that a career (or temporary career) it is acting on what we're biologically predisposed to do. Not every woman feels that, though, and that's just as okay.

I think there's something similar about the house elves, that they are actually there for the purpose of serving, but there are a few that go against the grain and want to have other rights (like Dobby.) My instinct tells me that if any one of the Hogwarts elves actually approached Dumbledore and wanted those rights, they would be granted.

Hermione may be able to do good with SPEW, but I don't think she'll be very successful until she respects the elves enough to not treat them like those poor, uneducated elves who just don't know that there's a better life than what they have.

[Tanuki]

Dumbledore reminds me of Santa Claus.
By all means she should educate them and show them how great freedom is, but forcing freedom onto somone defeats the whole purpose. She needs to let them make up their own mind.

Freedom is an illusion. To be free means to have to take responsability for yourself. The house elves don't have to pay rent, don't have to look for jobs of their own. They don't even have to buy their own food, just eat from whatever you're making for the family.

I personally think that payment is bad for society in general, since it forces rent and other things to become factors. Also, when you pay someone, it becomes a lot easier to fire them since you can just say you were not getting your money's worth. When no one is paid, the boss has to think of better reasons to fire you. I think the house elf situation is great

[Mint]

Well, the main reason why there are any movements for elves to be free is because they are being mistreated, beaten like Dolby was. If they are free - they don't have to continue their miserable lives.

Elves in Hogwarts have it easy - but other elves - all they probably get in return is a little bit of food so they won't die starving and that’s it. They don't necessarily have a roof over their heads (their master can tell them to live outside) or enough food. And I’m sure violence is often used against them in such home. Freedom gives you the right to choose - you still have to work, but your conditions improve greatly.