voldemort in gof

[Athena Appleton]

before he killed Frank Bryce, he killed Bertha Jorkins

in the Goblet of Fire, when Harry and Voldemort make the Priori Incantatum, you hear/see:

1. Screams (from when Voldy used Crucio on Harry)
2. The hand (the silver hand Voldy made for Wormtail)
3. More screams (from when Voldy used Crucio on Harry)
4. Cedric
5. Frank Bryce
6. Bertha Jorkins
7. Lily
8. James

[Evil Wizard Petting Zoo]

Didn't Voldemort used his wand even earlier than before (before killing that old man)? I'm not sure now, but I guess it was him who put Crouch sr under Imperius. I think it was him killing that man and 'imperiusing' Crouch.

I thought the book said Wormtail "imperiused" Crouch. I could be wrong though.

[Alice I]

I will have to look it up but I think that Wormtail used the Imperious curse on Crouch.
However; Voldemort said in his speach to the DE that he broke the memory charm on Bertha. The Ligemens spell is what he would have used and that takes a wand. So how would something like that come out? as the word Ligemens being spoken?

[Aberforth]

Legillimens doesn't necessarily need a wand. Voldemort is sufficiently skilled at it to not need his wand - he always knows when he is being lied to. Sanpe himself said that Occlumency didn't require a wand when you had mastered it - I would imagine it works the same.

Dumbledore seems to do Legilimecy on Harry when he appears to look right into him, so that is an exmaple of not needing a wand. Snape only used one because he has not mastered Legilimency properly, only Occlumency.

[pandora315]

I've been looking through the books and I can't find where it is so if anyone knows help me out, but doesn't Harry have a conversation with DD about this very thing? Harry asks DD how voldy could be holding a wand and DD says "how indeed" or something like that. If Harry saw VOldy holding the wand then Voldy must have killed Frank. As to how VOldy got his wand back No one agrees with me but I think that Lucius was involved in the 13 muggles and Pettigrew's fake death. I think he's really the one who preformed the curse and I think he also retrieved Voldy's wand and saved it for him just like he saved the diary and all his other dark magic things. He probably kept it hidden in his "Secret Chamber" under the floor.

[Alice I]

As to how VOldy got his wand back No one agrees with me but I think that Lucius was involved in the 13 muggles and Pettigrew's fake death. I think he's really the one who preformed the curse and I think he also retrieved Voldy's wand and saved it for him just like he saved the diary and all his other dark magic things. He probably kept it hidden in his "Secret Chamber" under the floor.

But then how did Voldemort get the wand. When Malfoy and the rest of the DE showed up at the graveyard Lucius had not yet seen or knew of Voldemorts return. He said to Voldemort something like:
"If I had any sign of your wereabouts I would have been at your side in an instant."

[pandora315]

Do you remember Mr Borgin from Knockturn Alley? I've always thought that he would come into the serious in bigger part. Lucious sells a bunch of things to Mr. Borgin that he says might be embarassing (or something like that) if the ministry found them during a raid. Voldy's wand would be sure to make the ministry ask a few questions. What if he sold the wand and it somehow made its way back to voldy that way? Wormtail might have come accross it while buying potions ingrediants or something. Theres one thing I don't understand about Lucious and Voldy though. In CoS Lucious slip the diary to Ginny knowing what will happen, that if all went well VOldy would be returned in the form on 16 year old Tom Riddle. How come VOldy doesn't give him credit for this?

[Jotomicron]

It didn't go very well.... No one died, the Basilisk was killed... I'd say it have been a big disaster(sp) for the bad side! Would Lucius want Voldemort to know about something that went wrong?? I'd say Lucius hasn't told him abou that, and maybe no one (besides Voldy and Lucius) knows about the diary, so, n one would have known what was supposed to happen, and Voldemort never came to know about that!

[pandora315]

Good point! Voldy doesn't really give out any thanks for failed efforts does he Maybe VOldy will find out and punish Lucious, or kill him off

[Athena Appleton]

About Voldemort placing the Imperius curse on Crouch, Sr... yes, he does, but it's possible he doesn't use his own wand to do that, so it wouldn't have shown up in the Priori Incantatum.

That is a good point about Borgin from Knockturn Alley, but I don't know if I really think Malfoy had Voldy's wand all those years and got rid of it then... hmmm... then again, he was assuming that the 16-year-old Tom Riddle would return, and at that point would need his wand... *shrug* could be, could be...

Pandora, I don't agree with you about Lucius performing the curse (I think Sirius and Lupin say in front of Wormtail that it must have been "his finest hour") but I do think there's a chance Lucius, or someone sent by Lucius (because it would look bad for someone about to try to "turn good" and claim to have been forced into doing bad stuff to show up salvaging Voldy's things) went back to get it...

[pandora315]

I feel awful because every post I'm responded to tonight seems to be in disagreement with you Athena! No hard feelings? But I have disagree with you again When Sirius and Lupin are talking about WWormtails "finest hour" what they're referring to is the night that he got run to Voldy and hand in the Potters, the whole line is, "It must ahve been the finest moment of your miserable life, telling Voldemort you could hand them the Potters." PoA ch19. So its still very possible that Lucious was there.....(Sooner or later I'm win someone over )

[pandora315]

I'll win someone over to the "what really happened the night Peter lost his finger, faked his own death, and 13 muggles were killed" theory is what I meant to say

[Athena Appleton]

I don't take much of anything personally (and if I do take something personally, I out and out say "I'm offended" and don't have a smiley after it)... I argue on here all the time, I like having someone challenge me, as I get on here for the purpose of enjoying a little bit of adult conversation and discussion. So, if you won't think I'm "picking on you" when I disagree with you, I won't think you're doing the same to me, deal?

You're right, by the way, about what Lupin and Sirius tell Wormtail... I had it out of context (usually I look stuff up, but I think my kiddos were screamin or somethin)

I still don't see any evidence that Lucius was the one who retrieved Voldy's wand, or especially that Lucius was the one who killed the muggles... I think that, if that were the case, when Sirius and Black were interrogating Wormtail in the Shrieking Shack, he would have mentioned it (it would have fit in well with the "I'm not that bad" thing he was trying to do).

If you have evidence that Malfoy was the one who killed the Muggles, or that Malfoy was there that night, by all means, let's hear it.

[Alice I]

I'll jump on the band wagon too.
If Wormtail had not been the one to blow up the street then I think Sirius would have realized that.
I think that is why he (Sirius) laughed when the MoM wizards showed up to take him away.
He knew he had been out smarted by the little rat. (Pun Intended)

As the story unfolded in the shrieking shack then would have been the time to reveal a different theory but Wormtail seemed to finally admit his actions even if he didn't say
"yes I sold out James and Lilly and faked my own death"
He did not deny it when Sirius pointed out that Peter faked his own death again to get away from crookshanks.

So I believe that even though Peter is a poor wizard he did indeed blow up the street and kill all the muggles.

I am not yet totally convinced that Peter was the one to retrieve Voldemort's wand but it would make sense.
If he took the wand and pocketed it then transformed into the rat, Voldemort's wand would be perfectly safe and very well hidden for all of the years between Voldie's dissaperance and rebirth.