Snape's secret

[Albus]

Well, Snape might have had a special good reason to risk everything to join DD and spy LV: what if he had had his parents (or brothers, or anyway someone very near and special to him, maybe a friend) killed or tortured by LV, couldn't this be a good reason for joining DD against the Dark Lord ?

[Violet]

Snape is the most interesting character because you never quite know where he stands. He has obvious hatred for Neville and Harry (both who had parents in the OotP), and a bias to his own house (Malfoy, Crabbe. Goyle, with their death eater fathers), He's playing a very deep game.

I agree with you on that highsorcerer. No-one truly knows where Snape's loyalties lie.
I think with his poor treatment of Harry, Neville and Ron in his lessons it may be because of the torment he suffered as a child at the hands of sirius and james. And for him by doing it back to harry then he feels that he's getting his own back. however he still does things which make me think that deep down he really is on DD's side, for example in the Philosopjhers Stone, he saves harry's life when Quirrell is trying to jinx his broom, and the way that he tries to stop Quirrell from getting the Stone for VD. That certainly points towards him being very much against VD.

[Holly Golightly]

Okies, here's a theory that kinda evolved a while ago, but I dismissed at the time, but now have though it might be close to the mark again...

What is Snape did infact have a thing for Lilly during his school years?
And, what if the Potters was the reason that he left Vdolei's side, and went spy for DD? Now, I dismissed this before thinking, well, Snape went spy before the Potters were killed, but then I've remembered a converstaion in which it was said that Voldie had been after the Potters for quite a while before he killed them...

So, if Snape still had a thing for Lilly, and didnt' want to see her killed (though he prob wouldn't have minded about James I'm sure! ) he decided to spy for DD and sty to stop this from happening?

Maybe he hates Harry because of the part of him that reminds him of James (he does look remarkably like James after all) yet, keeps helping save his live because of his hidden love for Lilly, and because he couldnt' save her life...>?

Anyways, what thinks people?

[Violet]

I hadn't thought about that before hmmmm.... i guess it's possible. When harry got to see inside Snape's pensieve and saw sirius and his dad picking on Snape and the lily stood up for him. I think that maybe snape started to read more into that than there was there. he seems really hurt by the way he was treated as a child and has thus become really bitter about it. but lily seems to be one of the people who stood up for him.
So yeah i think that this theory is quite possible....

[Holly Golightly]

Yeah, and with the pensive, well, this is what I though about that whole thing.

Now, James and Sirius picked on Snape and vice versa alot right, so why woudl he remove that memory? Harry knew that this happened, and I could see how it woudl be embarasing, but still. I doubt he went thorugh and removed every memory about himself and J&S...

What if the reason that this one was taken out (presumably so that Harry didnt' see during the Legim.. thing) was because of the encounter with Lily... Snape did kind of completely alienate her in that memory, and maybe he didn't want Harry to see when, in Snape's mind anyways, James won the battle for Lily...>?

[Jotomicron]

Now, I dismissed this before thinking, well, Snape went spy before the Potters were killed, but then I've remembered a converstaion in which it was said that Voldie had been after the Potters for quite a while before he killed them...

So, if Snape still had a thing for Lilly, and didnt' want to see her killed (though he prob wouldn't have minded about James I'm sure! ) he decided to spy for DD and sty to stop this from happening?

I think Voldie had just wanted the Potters for a long time... Then, when he heard of the prophecy, he thought about the Longbottoms and the Potters. Cause he had been after the Potters, I think he choose to killed them. If Snape had that thing for Lilly, I think he would have turned for the good side a lot before the prophecy.

And this made me remember the following:
If the POtters were in danger, so were the Longbottoms. Did DD make anything to protect them in case Voldie choose to attack them? Just wonderng.


~Just wonder about ev'rything... It's good to your mind~

[Holly Golightly]

Well, maybe Voldie was only really after James previously, and when the prophecy cane, and he decided to off the lot of them (thus Lily too) he went and changed sides?

Hrmm, but to the qn about protection, we know that that spell was performed on the Potter's, but we don't really know anything about the Longbottoms... Maybe if nothing was done, it was becaue DD felt taht they didnt' need to be protected, because he had Snape working as a spy, and Snape would have said that Voldie was going after the Potters, not hte Longbottoms...>?

[Jotomicron]

Yeah, I think Snape would have warned DD.

About Voldie being after James only... Well, I now remeber that in the first book (I think...) Voldemort said that his mother was not to be killed, but it was that way cause she wouldn't hand over Harry... It is very possible that Voldemort was only after James and the real Potter family.

And it makes me think that... some time ago, I heard that we would learn why James and Lilly had all that money! It could be related.



~Just wonder about ev'rything... It's good to your mind~

[Holly Golightly]

I had completely forgotten that in the first book that Voldie was telling Lily that he didnt' have to kill her if she just got out of the way...

Hrmm, kinda put a hole into that Snape's reason for leaving/turning spy if Voldie never meant to kill Lily in the first place???

I think that I'm going to have to think about this a little more!\

Holly

[Violet]

I had completely forgotten that in the first book that Voldie was telling Lily that he didnt' have to kill her if she just got out of the way...

Hrmm, kinda put a hole into that Snape's reason for leaving/turning spy if Voldie never meant to kill Lily in the first place???

I think that I'm going to have to think about this a little more!

Holly

Oh yeah i forogt about that....
ok so maybe this theory about snape wont work. mind you even if it isn;t the reason that snape turned spy, doesnt mean that he doesn't still have a thing for lily!
it does seem to make sense...

Violet

[darkcloak]

This topic makes for some good reading


On a slightly different note do you think that we may see Snape's two other memories he didn't want Harry to see. When he first puts his memories into the Pensieve, he touches his head three times. Perhaps they are:

1. The encouter with Lily, James and Sirius we saw
2. What he is doing for the Order now
3. Rejection by Lily???

ideas anyone

[Holly Golightly]

Well, I'm guessing that the rejection by Lily was the main reason for the memory that we saw. At least that was my take on it.

I wonder if there are only three in there. JK did tell us he did it three times, so I wonder what the other two must be aswell! Good job on noticing that darkcloak!

Hrmmm, they woudl ahev to be pretty bad, since the memories that Harry forced Snape to show were pretty bad, and they were ones that he left in his mind...

Maybe what Voldie did to cause Snape to turn spy... Or some kind of induction thing to the DE's, if Snape woudl be embarrased for Harry to see that... Possibly Snape doing evil things for Voldie too... That would be something htat you wouldnt' want your students to know about...

[Violet]

Well, I'm guessing that the rejection by Lily was the main reason for the memory that we saw. At least that was my take on it.

I wonder if there are only three in there. JK did tell us he did it three times, so I wonder what the other two must be aswell! Good job on noticing that darkcloak!

Hrmmm, they woudl ahev to be pretty bad, since the memories that Harry forced Snape to show were pretty bad, and they were ones that he left in his mind...

Maybe what Voldie did to cause Snape to turn spy... Or some kind of induction thing to the DE's, if Snape woudl be embarrased for Harry to see that... Possibly Snape doing evil things for Voldie too... That would be something htat you wouldnt' want your students to know about...

good thinking Darkcloak, and Holly!

i think probably one would definately be something related to lily and rejection by her etc, ie something very personal to him. and i think the other probably was something to do with Voldermort and Snapes actions either for him, or the way he was aroudn him.

both of these would make harry look very differently at Snape, so i think he would have real issues wiht harry seeing them

[Holly Golightly]

Hrmmm, maybe pity's the key! I would say that something that Snape definately doesnt' want Harry to feel for himis pity, and that first memory definately made Harry pity or feel sorry for Snape.

I think that Snape likes the hate and hate alike relationship that he'[s got going with Harry, not like in the enjoyable sense, but that of that he wouldnt' want it changed...

[Violet]

Hrmmm, maybe pity's the key! I would say that something that Snape definately doesnt' want Harry to feel for himis pity, and that first memory definately made Harry pity or feel sorry for Snape.

I think you're definately right there, it would totally undermine the power trip that snape usually seems to be on.
In book 5 durring harrys first occlumency lessonsnape was criticising those who

Fools who wear the hearts proudly on their sleeves

I think that shows the way he thinks it to be a sign of weakness when everyone knows the things that have pained you in you life, and the way that it can be used against you.