The 'Marauder Generation'

[Lizzy Bennet]

Since we keep getting glimpses into the past, I thought it would be interesting to start a topic about those people who went to school around the time of Harry's parents: Sirius, Lupin, Pettigrew, Snape, and of course, James and Lily, as well as other members of the first OotP, such as Neville's parents.

I found it particularly interesting that Harry was able to see his father (and even Sirius) in a less favorable light. It's been mentioned that since it was Snape's memory that perhaps, through Snape's eyes, the event may have seemed worse to him than it actually was. That maybe James and Sirius weren't quite so horrible, and perhaps still, that Lily wasn't quite so protective of Snape (perhaps he wanted to see her in that light). However, unlike the Weasley twins that James and Sirius have been compared to, this showed them in a nastier light.

If you remember, in book 3, Snape 'owed' James, because James saved his life. Remember, Sirius had told Snape how to find Lupin knowing full and well, Snape would come across Lupin in his werewolf state. James 'saved' Snape by warning him and stopping him from going. Granted, unlike Harry originally thought, James was a part of this scheme and got 'cold feet' (unlike Harry's previous belief that his father truly 'saved' Snape innocently and honourably). Because of this action, no matter how much Snape may have resented the circumstances, Snape 'saved' Harry during his first year in the Quidditch match.

Since then, Snape has 'saved' others: he tried to save Sirius when Harry told him where he thought Sirius was in book 5. Snape could have easily joined up with Umbridge, bullying the DA gang (H, R, H, L, G, and N), letting Sirius die, but he did not. Likewise, though asked, Snape did try to teach Harry occumalcy (I think I misspelt that). Technically, any obligation Snape may have felt towards James in 'saving' his (Snape's) life as a teenager would have, most likely, been resolved when Snape saved Harry his first year. Yet, he still tried to help Harry, and he did try to help Sirius, who he hates possibly more than James.

It's a tangled web, and I can't help but wonder when and how Pettigrew will resolve his debt to Harry for saving his (Pettigrew's) life at the end of the third book. Dumbledore said that Voldemort would not want to have a wizard close to him that was indebted to Harry. It'll be interesting to see what happens with that, as there was no mention of Pettigrew in book 5.

Like I said, there's a lot to talk about, involving the past and these characters from Harry's parents' past, so I hope this will be an interesting thread. I wonder how well the Potters knew the Longbottoms. Additionally, I thought we were going to learn more about Lily in this book and about the whole 'green eye connection', but I guess that will be coming later. Look forward to your thoughts!


~ Lizzy

[Claire]

About the trick that Sirius played on Snape. I think that James didn't know about it, Sirius never told him, it was all Sirius's planning.

[Lizzy Bennet]

About the trick that Sirius played on Snape. I think that James didn't know about it, Sirius never told him, it was all Sirius's planning.

If, in fact, that is true (which I'm not saying it isn't...it probably is!), it makes it all the more incredible that Snape would go out of his way to help and try to save Sirius from Voldemort at the Department of Mysteries, the truth as he believed it at the time.

Additionally, Sirius gave Snape no reason to change his opinion of him. I almost wish, somehow, Sirius could have known it was Snape who tried to help him. I hope the rumours are true and Snape is in all the books, and not killed off. I can't explain why, but I find the former generation (Harry's parents' generation) a fascinating one, and it's sad when the fighters for the 'good side' are being persecuted (Neville's parents [in regards to their sanity], the Potters, Sirius, as well as many others...).

[Holly Golightly]

Urhh, about the trick with Lupin, I was also under the same impression as you siriusblack, that James didnt' know, and when he did find out about it, he went and stopped Snape going through.

Also, Snape did not save Harry in the quidditch match... he tried to do the counter-curse, but it was making no efffect that we saw... It was Hermoine who saved him by knocking Snape into Quirell and thus breaking his eye contact...

And I think that the reason that Snape went to rescue Sirius and taught Harry Occlemency(sp) was becuase he too was a member of the OOTP, and knew the consequences of not helping... ie, if he really had Sirius there, and was about to get the prophecy, bad things would have happened... he just did it all to stop Voldie... It think that there will still come a time when Snape has to directly save Harry's life... But hey, i could be wrong!

[Neo]

Well, about this generation, Liz has already mention one of my points. James goes and saves Snape, but now we see that James was the one that really bothered Snivellus (since Sirius didn't really harm Snape, he just stops him from getting his wand). So if James was the one that bothered so much Snape, why he saved him afterwards? Or maybe before, and then Snape didn't thank James and James started to bother him?

Also I'm not sure Neville's parents were in the same generation, but that would be cool.

[Lizzy Bennet]

I can see that perhaps Snape never directly saved Harry, Holly (because you're absolutely right ), I guess my point is that he has indirectly helped Harry and tried to help him on some occasions. Good point, Neo--I'm not sure if the trick Sirius tried to play on Snape happened before or after James was teasing Snape so badly. If it was before, I'd agree with you, Neo, that Snape wasn't thankful to James and assumed James was in on it and started cursing him. If it was after, that's a bit more confusing...why would James change his tune about Snape and save him and why was he so hateful to him before?

I think Snape--though he certainly has fallacies and issues--is a more complex character than Harry believes him to be. He just isn't through and through hateful and evil. He isn't Bellatrix Lestrange or Lucius Malfoy or even Dolores Umbridge. Harry got a rare opportunity to get an insight into how Snape came to be (not with all the details, though), but also, in time, he may see that although Snape isn't the most pleasant person, he does seem to be on the right side. When Harry told Snape about Sirius and the Department of Mysteries, Snape could have handled that differently. Someone pointed out that Snape suddenly being nicer to Harry (because Snape was a part of the OotP) would have been mighty suspicious and drawn a lot of unnecessary attention.

I really enjoyed going back in the past and learning more about the 'Marauder Generation'. You can see what Professor McGonagall (I think it was her--or, at least, someone sitting with her), in the third book, was saying about Pettigrew 'hero-worshipping' Potter and Black. That certainly was evident. Lupin appeared just as I expected him to. I was surprised Lily defended Snape as much as she did and wondered if that affected Snape's feelings for her or not.

Holly, with what you said about Snape not having ever directly saved Harry's life, and my agreeing and saying Snape has indirectly helped on the side of good and tried to help Harry, I wonder if J.K. Rowling is leading up to Snape making a genuine sacrifice for Harry or vice-versa. Harry, whether he wanted to or not, felt compassion for Snape having seen his memory. He was angry at his own father, rather than simply gloating that Snape was humiliated. Likewise, Neo, I think it's rather interesting you pointed out the importance of the timing of it all...I wonder if, in book 3, it says how old Snape was when Sirius pulled the prank on him, and James saved Snape. If you find out, do post it!


~ Lizzy

[Eol]

I think that Snape's worst memory was before he found out that Lupin was a werewolf. Would James and Sirius be that stupid to risk Lupin's future at the school just to ease their boredom? I seriously doubt it.
Also Snape did save Harry's life because if it wasn't for him, Harry would have fallen off the broom long before Hermione got to Quirrel.

Slightly off topic, but does it say anywhere whether the Marauders were in Gryffindor? It just seems to me that Wormtail would have been more suited to Slytherin due to his power lust.

[Albus]

Ah, Eol, you touched one of the greatest questions...
Nowhere in the books is clearirly written which House they belonged to, anyway we can make some suppositions:
1) Probably they were in the same House, because they were friends, but this is not a proof. A proof may be tha fact that Lupin says in Book 5 that DD chose him as a prefect instead of James or Sirius
2) Harry probably attends his father's House (as Ron is in his parents' and brothers' and Draco in his father's)
3) Phineas Nigellus speaking of the Black family, in Book 5, says "We Slytherin"... So was Sirius in Slytherin... ???

My personal opinion is that they all were in Gryffondor

[gecko]

I read PoA just now and I came across that bit when Harry comes back from his first illegal Hogsmeade visit and is in bed and thinks about Peter Pettigrew. In his mind, Peter looks very much like Neville Longbottom! Now, I don't know if that's something that we should look into, but they have a few things in common, namely:
- both of them aren't really bright (though neville's becoming smarter it seems!)
- both of 'm are looking up to others (peter to james and sirius, neville to harry (but not as much as peter did))

Mmm, can't think of anymore similarities, and it's probably not even important for the plot !

[Eol]

Now with Neville, we can see his acts of courage. What can we say about Wormtail? There's a line in PoA which Sirius tells Wormtail that he was always looking for someone to protect him or something along those lines anyway----> this is very un-gryffindor of him. Could he have been the hat's mistake???

[Albus]

Maybe he'll show his courage in one of the next books
Remember DD's words in PoA: "The time may come, Harry, when you will be very glad that you saved Peter Pettigrew's life"

[highsorcerer]

Peter admitted he was never brave like the other Mauraders (PoA), but since the hat is usually right, Peter may ultimately make the brave choice he failed to make before - die rather than betray his friends. Lupin is the only one left, but he owes his life to Harry, even though Harry did it to stop a different kind of evil (having his father's best friends commit a cold blooded murder, even if he deserved it).

The sorting hat KNOWS. It's not always obvious (such as why Hermoine and Neville were sorted into Gryffindor), but both have shown their bravery. The sorthing hat also allows choices. So Peter may ultimately find his courage and stand up to Voldemort, willing to die to attone for his betrayal of the Potters.

BTW, does it seem like most of the OotP were ex-Grffyindors?

[Devinci]

About the houses : There was a thread on that earlier...a link somewhere. I personally believed for quite a long time that all the marauders were in Gryff. blindly...but now, I'm not so sure.

Though the arguments for Peter are a little hindered by the fact that Neville did get into Gryff. If Neville (though I love him dearly) can, anyone can.

And finally, about the OoTP being ex-Gryffindors, I find that almost trite. It's almost as if you get sorted in Gryff. and you're automatically a hero. Sure, it says their brave, but it really does seem to short-change the other great aspects of human nature

I think I'm getting annoyed with Gryffindor...

[Eol]

Gryffindors have courage by the barrel-full. Neville also has proved his courage on many an occasion. In PS he tried to take on Crabbe and Goyle by himself, as well as standing up to the trio when they tried to sneak out of the common room. And in book 5 Neville proves himself repeatedly in the fight with the deatheaters. He didn't cower in a corner, he fought valiantly. So its not the case of "If neville can get in anyone can"

Having said that, maybe Gryffindors don't possess common sense in abundance- that courage can be blinding them as to the most sensible course of action, as we have seen in OotF with Harry. This isn't selling the other houses short. Gryffindors seem to just rush head on into situations, often without stopping to think about other possiblities. They're not afraid to put themselves out on the front line, which is why they so often do. This is why most of the Order would likely be Gryffindor. However, that's not to say that the other houses wouldn't be in the ordr too.... Look at Snape.

[Gwared]

Neville highlighted his bravery in the very first book by standing up to the trio, personally I think if you carefully read the books you'll notice that Neville is couragous on numerous occasions!