Prophecy

[Holly Golightly]

After reading the prophecy, I was wondering something... does it kind of meant aht no one but Voldie can kill Harry, and vice versa???

... and either must die at the hand of the other ...

Do for example, if Lucious trieds to kill Harry, he shoudln't be able to, because Harry must either Kill Voldie, or die by his hand??? Is he, in a sense, protected by the prophecy from anyone buy Voldie???

*Holly tries to ponder this... *

What thinks people???

[DrkSphere]

After reading the prophecy, I was wondering something... does it kind of meant aht no one but Voldie can kill Harry, and vice versa???

... and either must die at the hand of the other ...

Do for example, if Lucious trieds to kill Harry, he shoudln't be able to, because Harry must either Kill Voldie, or die by his hand??? Is he, in a sense, protected by the prophecy from anyone buy Voldie???

*Holly tries to ponder this... *

What thinks people???

Yep, that's what I got... no one can kill Harry but Voldemort, and vice versa. However, they can certainly incapacitate him, and Voldemort can deliver the killing curse... so Harry's not clear from any danger. The interesting thing, then, is why Voldemort is so scared of Dumbledore? Probably because he didn't hear that part of the curse, i'm guessing.

Also, though, after reading the prophecy, I had the dreaded feeling that BOTH Harry and Voldemort will die. It said something like "Neither can survive while the other lives" or something like that... and while Dumbledore explained it that only one can kill the other, I got the impression that they will both have to die....

[Holly Golightly]

Uhhh, well, that's exactly the opposite of what it made me think...

See, we have also been discussing wether or not Harry would live at the end of the series. Now, I think that we all presume that Voldie will die, so when I read that, I though, of well, Harry will have to be the one to kill him, and so that means that harry will live through the fight with him, and, obv, so he will live at the end of the series!!!

*Note, I'm not even contemplating the idea that Voldie will tirumph over Harry!!!*

[APWBD]

I don't believe that Voldemort will live at the end of book seven. If he were still alive, then Harry probably would be dead (assuming that J.K has the fatal, final confrontation by book seven). So, I am hoping that Harry will be able to kill Voldemort, and Voldemort won't be able to kill him. After all, the book is written by the view point of Harry, and I can't imagine Rowling not allowing us as readers to see what happened to the wizard world after Voldemort's demise. But, he may be killed by someone else after 'the confrontation'. I sure hope he doesn't die though!!!

[Lizzy Bennet]

Another thought on the 'Prophecy' . . .

For all those who have read the book, you know that it was either Harry or Neville that could have been Voldemort's biggest enemy, but that Dumbledore said that Voldemort chose Harry, but Harry seems to think he might have chosen wrong. I'm not saying Dumbledore is wrong--that Harry is not Voldemort's biggest enemy or that Neville is Voldemort's biggest enemy--but I do wonder what will happen to Neville. I was so afraid he was going to die in this book, and I wonder what is in store for him to come.

Since book 4, we've learned more and more about Neville, and he seems more closely related (not by blood) to Harry's past, present, and future than before. I just wonder what J.K. will do with Neville in relation to the prophecy in later books, and how that will tie in to the "each must die at the hand of the other", Voldemort not hearing all of the prophecy, and Neville being the other possibility. What are your thoughts?

Not to mention, how strange that Trelawney, of all people (excepting her true prediction in book 4), basically a fraud (who, oddly, I felt sorry for compared to Umbridge), should be the one to give the prophecy . . . was that why Dumbledore asked her to stay on at Hogwarts?

Wow, hope I haven't gotten too off-track . . . I just can't imagine that Neville and Trelawney would have been brought up in regards to the prophecy without there possibly being something more to their connection to it . . .

[Blaise Zabini]

Though I do think that Neville will become a much more powerful character and a great friend to Harry, I think that his role in the prophecy is over. The way I interpreted it was that up until the point LV attempted to destroy Harry, it could have been either he or Neville in that prophecy. But once LV attacked Harry and thus, 'marked him as an equal,' it was Harry who now had a role to play, and not Neville. What I do find interesting is that LV could easily hgave chose Neville to attack, and the two would have switched places. It's quite an interesting prospect.

[Nothlit]

But you gotta admit, "Neville Longbottom and the Order of the Phoenix" just doesn't have that same ring to it.

[Lily]

Also, though, after reading the prophecy, I had the dreaded feeling that BOTH Harry and Voldemort will die. It said something like "Neither can survive while the other lives" or something like that... and while Dumbledore explained it that only one can kill the other, I got the impression that they will both have to die....

I interpreted the "Neither can live while the other survives" to mean that Harry can't really be "free" to get on with his life until Voldemort is dead.

On a deeper level, I think LV is a great metaphor for facing our fears/overcoming obstacles.

[APWBD]

I interpreted the "Neither can live while the other survives" to mean that Harry can't really be "free" to get on with his life until Voldemort is dead.

Same here Lily. I'm going to assume that Harry won't have a love life during this book, or atleast won't really be able to engage in that type of relationship until Voldemort dies.

[EnderJK13]

I don't understand why the prophecy has to come true at all... I don't recall any other time in the series when there was a prediction that HAD to come true. Of course, if JK Rowling backs out of it later on (I can picture Harry being close to death at the hands of Voldemort when suddenly Neville comes to the rescue or something), well I think that would kind of make me mad , cause it would be a cop-out. I don't know if that makes sense but oh well.

Also, does anyone ever get turned off by the amount of Deus ex Machina in these books. Just to sound smart its when our hero is affronted with danger and suddenly a higher power gives him a weapon, or backup appears or something. For example, in Robinson Crusoe, we've got a guy floating in the middle of the ocean and he magically lands on a rock close to an island. Anyways, do you wish that for once Harry and his friends could take on their opponents without having backups bust through the door to save the day?

[highsorcerer]

I think there are a few signifigant items of note.

A) The prophecy was marked with a ? regarding Harry Potter.

B) Both Harry and Neville handled the prophecy without going mad. So it actually seems like the one specified IS NOT YET DETERMINED.

C) Dumbledore confessed that he was afraid Voldemort might get information about him via Harry if they were too close. So perhaps Dumbledore lied deliberately to Harry in case Voldemort was listening in to protect a backup plan they were working on - Neville Longbottom. Harry might just be a decoy.

D) Dumbledore may be simply wrong about the prophecy. He claims it must be Harry because Voldemort marked him. However, has he really marked him as his equal yet? From all his dealings, he's treated Harry as his inferior.

Just some thoughts...

[techjohn]

I was wondering... could LV have picked the wrong one?

It was Lily's love for harry that protected him wasnt it?

So what would stop Neville from being the one?

DD also said that they had assumed it was Harry who the prophecy had talked about when he was attacked... but was this right?

This would also turn the tables and Neville would have to kill Harry?

From JKR's interviews, it appears to me that the books will have no way of continuing after book 7... could this be that Harry is dead?

That's just an idea...

[Holly Golightly]

hrmm, okies highsorcerer, not to rip up everything that you posted but...

A) the propecy was initially marked with a (?), then when they found it was Harry, they wrote his anme after it, so it's not questioning wehter or not it's Harry, just signifying that they didnt' know before.

B) Yes, it is strnage that only Harry and Neville did tough it, but the fact aht Neville could means nothing. It was only someone who was marked in teh prophecy that coudl take it off the shelf without going mad, which ismore reason that it's definately Harry. Also note that Lucious and Bellitrix(sp) kept telling Harry to give it to them... what would ahve beenthe point if they woudl ahve gone mad on recieveing it?

C) I was under the impression that Voldie was no longer seeing through Harry's mind after the fighting at the MOM... which means that Voldie coudnt' have been present then... though I might be wrong about that one, it was just my impression!!!

D) the scar is what markes Harry, not the way Voldie treats him... after all, he treats almost everyone as his inferior... DE's included! Except possibly a reincarnation of Slazar Slytherin, I can't see one person Voldie treats as beign on the same level as himself...>?

And to techjohn, Lily's love it what stopped Harry from dying,so presumable, if she hadnt' sacrificed herself, the Prophecy woud have then transfered itself over to Neville being the one in it,s ince Harry was no longer around. BUt it ws due to taht that Harry got his scar, which was Voldie marking him as his equal, which happened as Voldie transfered some of hispowers to Harry... parseltougne and whatever else. Harry is very powerful for a not fully trained 15 yr old wizard after all!!!

WOW, that seemed to go on for ages!!! Sorry about the hugely long post everyone... But oh wells though!

Holly

[werebane]

I don't think that just b/c voldemort would have killed harry w/out his mothers love would have switched the prophecy over to neville. DD said the voldemort chose harry which meant he (voldemort) thought neville was inferior to him and harry a real threat. so if voldeort had killed harry, he would have lived throught the prophecy and would be the one to survive.

[Holly Golightly]

Well, untill one was marked his equal, both possibilities were still valid. So if Voldie had killed Harry then, no scar, thus no mark of equality... so it would have had to have been Neville then, no?