World War II references

[DucksRMagical]

I doubt she would bring Hitler into the story. I agree that that would probably offend a lot of readers.

She said in an interview that it wasn't meant to be exactly like WWII, it just turned out that way.

[Athena Appleton]

Did anyone else notice the similarities between World War II and the book? I did.

-Voldy's hatred of Muggles and Muggle borns = Hitler's hatred of Jews, Catholics, Gypsies, etc

-Voldy taking over the Ministry and Hogwarts = Hitler's takeover of government and schools

-The prison that Grindelwald started (can't remember the name and someone else is currently reading the book!) is like the concentration camps.

It's like WWII, but also like many others. It's an epic battle between good and evil.

However, your'e right, there are a lot of major similarities.

Others:

Look at a timeline of events. Grindelwald was defeated in the mid 1940's. Considering what you learn in HBP, "The Other Minister", many of the tragedies that happen in the Muggle world are really the wizarding world acting in our ignorance. Grindelwald was on the rampage at the same time Hitler was. Perhaps all we know about the events surrounding Hitler's rise to power had little to do with Hitler at all?

The Inquisitorial Squad in OotP is a dead ringer for the Aryan youth organizations set up by the Nazi party.

The way the Nazis knew about Jews was that there was a mandatory registration of all full- half- or quarter-blooded Jews.

The fear of trusting NO ONE was certainly there in Nazi Europe.

Psychological warfare was in full gear in the Holocaust. The Nazis had a plan to tear down a person, strip him or her of individuality ("Undesireable Number One", instead of using a proper name), divide and conquer. That certainly happened with Harry, Ron and Hermione. They became highly suspicious of one another, and angry at one another, during their months in hiding.

Ron's decision to try to disguise Hermione to keep the government from finding her is reminiscent of measures the Resistance fighters and friends of Jews (and other "outlaws") took to protect those in danger.

[noris]

I just think that whenever an "evil" person takes over and a certain group of people have something they want whether its land or gold. They seperate that group and they become second class citizens its all through history. The spanish did it to the people of South America, the English did it to the Scotish and Welsh and its happened throughout Jewish history.

As it happens in that particular time frame it would seem strange that something major in the muggle world would not be reflected in the wizarding world.

[Bextra]

Didn't Hermione, Ron and Harry become angry at each other because of the effect that the necklace had on them, coz it was so evil or something?

[DucksRMagical]

Yes, they did. When they wore the horcrux, it made them more irritable. Especially Ron.

[GodrictheGriffon]

the Order and especially the D.A. was like the French Resistance.
I forgot, why was it especially Ron? It wasn't just the cooking, was it?

[DucksRMagical]

I think because Ron was just more irritable than Harry and Hermione even without the horcrux. He was so used to having his 3 meals a day and having his mom take care of him. Searching for horcruxes was so different than what he was used to. I suppose it was also a lot different for Hermione, too, but she's always been more calm than Ron anyway. And Harry of course was used to the Dursleys, so searching for horcurxes was probably an improvement!

[SunsetG|rl]

I believe it was more on Ron because he was in love with Hermione. And he couldn't come out in the open. And with all the hero stuff Harry was doing Ron was afraid of loosing her or something. I mean that was the thing the horcrux put in his mind. I think the lack of meals was just a reason to get out the anger.

[GodrictheGriffon]

I think that if Ron wanted Hermione to fall for her instead of Harry, it would have been wiser to stay, so I don't think that the Horcrux was an addition to the problem, I think it was one of the roots. But Maybe he was just playing Hard-To-Get.

[youknowwho]

Another similarity is that nurmengard sounds a lot like Nurumburg, where the Nazi war crimes trials were held.

Also I remember it saying somewhere in the books that wizard wars and muggle wars tend to coincide.

[Athena Appleton]

I believe it was more on Ron because he was in love with Hermione. And he couldn't come out in the open. And with all the hero stuff Harry was doing Ron was afraid of loosing her or something. I mean that was the thing the horcrux put in his mind. I think the lack of meals was just a reason to get out the anger.

No, I think the fear he had about Hermione and Harry was almost subconscious. As early as GoF, it was clear he had at least a little resentment for the attention Harry got for being Harry Potter, the Boy Who Lived. It didn't mean he wasn't a good friend, but that was what Ron had always wanted (what he saw in the Mirror of Erised in P/SS, even, was being respected and recognised).

He'd never had someone choose HIM over Harry. That's why the fact that he was prefect was such a big deal for him. The idea that a girl who respects talent and knowledge would choose him over Harry had to be hard for him to imagine.

The fear that Harry and Hermione would love each other was probably his best kept secret, and it was probably something not even he realized, in a put-it-all-together kind of way. It's been there for a long time, and we've seen it (all the times Harry says something nice to Hermione, and Ron tries to top it), and Hermione saw it, but it was a shock to Harry, and I think it was kind of a shock to Ron, to have it put that way to him.

Ron had always been fairly irritable. He's also always been worse when there's something physical going on, too. He was hungry. He was bored. He was annoyed that Harry wasn't more prepared (as Hermione was). And yes, he was used to his mom pampering him, and to suddenly not have that was hard for him.

Ron's way has always been to be a good loyal friend, but he has had a habit of leaving (long periods where he doesn't speak with Harry or Hermione over certain things.) As Harry put it, and Dumbledore knew, he always comes back, though.

Things were worse because of the Horcrux. Since Ron was already the more irritable one, the one most likely to back out out of anger, he was more succeptible to it. Of the three of them, he was the one to give in. Hermione isn't one to speak out when she's ticked off until it's a MAJOR thing, and she's still usually careful to try not to hurt either of the other two. Harry turns his anger inward, and it eats him up from the inside. Ron reacted in a typical, but more emphasized, way, by blowing up and leaving.

[House Elf]

Clever Thinking, young wizard......

Did anyone else notice the similarities between World War II and the book? I did.

-Voldy's hatred of Muggles and Muggle borns = Hitler's hatred of Jews, Catholics, Gypsies, etc

-Voldy taking over the Ministry and Hogwarts = Hitler's takeover of government and schools

-The prison that Grindelwald started (can't remember the name and someone else is currently reading the book!) is like the concentration camps.

[Ms. Elsewhere]

Whoa! Excellent topic! I agree..... for a few more reasons.

There was all this hell going on in "Europe" where Voldy was spreading the disease of hate and terror and death... but where was the rest of the world to help? Same as WWII, other powers like America didn't come to help (propaganda and their own recession made it difficult for them to offer help because they had their own problems)

As well, It could have potentially affected the whole world, as Voldy planned to spread his rein to the whole world, didn't he?

Also... and it's funny cause this was on tv the other night, "Raiders of the lost ark" Indiana Jones? They theorised that Hitler was intersted in the arc so he could build a indistructable army....and then the one after that was the cup of Christ, where he wanted to drink from it and become immortal? Similar to Voldy, who sought to protect his soul and live forever?

Intersting stuff....

[DucksRMagical]

Good points, Distortia.

Seeing this topic again made me remember that Jo talked about the parallels to WWII at Carnegie Hall. Here's what she said.

This was the question-

Many of us older readers have noticed over the years similarities between the Death Eaters tactics and the Nazis from the 30s and 40s. Did you use that historical era as a model for Voldemort's reign and what were the lessons that you hope to impart to the next generation?

It was conscious. I think that if you're, I think most of us if you were asked to name a very evil regime we would think Nazi Germany. There were parallels in the ideology. I wanted Harry to leave our world and find exactly the same problems in the wizarding world. So you have the intent to impose a hierarchy, you have bigotry, and this notion of purity, which is this great fallacy, but it crops up all over the world. People like to think themselves superior and that if they can pride themselves in nothing else they can pride themselves on perceived purity. So yeah that follows a parallel. It wasn't really exclusively that. I think you can see in the Ministry even before it's taken over, there are parallels to regimes we all know and love. [Laughter and applause.] So you ask what lessons, I suppose. The Potter books in general are a prolonged argument for tolerance, a prolonged plea for an end to bigotry, and I think ti's one of the reasons that some people don't like the books, but I think that's it's a very healthy message to pass on to younger people that you should question authority and you should not assume that the establishment or the press tells you all of the truth.

I really loved her answer to that question. Definitely a good idea to question authority. Just because it's a law, doesn't mean it's just. And the press definitely doesn't always tell the truth. A funny example of that is an article I read shortly after Carnegie Hall that stated that the audience gasped when Jo announced that DD was gay. There wasn't any gasping, only loud applause and cheering.

[Ms. Elsewhere]

Oh so true! Thanks for posting that bit of the article. I really need to read the whole thing some time. So much info I still don't have welded into my brain yet.