Who is Aberforth?

A place to discuss your Harry Potter theories. Are there hidden secrets and conspiracies? What will happen in future plots? The truth may be in here!

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Postby Hagger 9003 » Thursday 21 September 2006 8:45:17pm

thanks for the welcome athena! i used to post alot more, but ive kinda gone underground recently... i definitely plan to post alot more!

i still dont know about RAB... regulus sounds too obvious to me, but as i cant think of anyone else, im not gonna argue! :)

aberforth is a really unknown entity.. all we know from the books is that he performed innapropiate charms on a goat, and worked for the order at one point. unless he is some secret spy whos better than snape was (or was thought to be), i cant think of what he did. i hope we learn more about him though... imagine being the brother of someone like DD. it would be a tough act to follow, and he may have turned slightly sour because of it.
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Postby Athena Appleton » Thursday 21 September 2006 10:39:54pm

Read all you can about the Hog's Head. Before I sacrificed the majority of my intelligence to preschoolers, it was a really strong argument that he was the guy there. The connection with the goat is the main clue, and the fact that, even though Dumbledore is personal friends with Madam Rosemerta (that name even right???), he passes her place and does some business of a more questionable nature at the Hog's Head. And, as you know, JK Rowling would have said nothing about Harry thinking the barkeep looked familiar if there wasn't something to it.

Anyway, I think it's a convincing argument. :grin:
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Postby SunsetG|rl » Friday 22 September 2006 9:40:53am

I think it's fairly clear that R.A.B. is Regulas Black, the brother of Sirius. I'm not sure, but I do think I remember reading that Regulas got in the Death Eaters group, but wanted to get out, and one doesn't just hand in a resignation letter to Voldemort.


I want to say I agree with you on this (that R.A.B. is Regulas). I just wonder if he was rather reluctant to be a lifetime death eater how did he got so close to actually find out about the neckless. Because that was a really big secret and he had to be really high to actually know that. And if I remember right Sirius said something that things had gotten to dangerous for Regulas and that's why he wanted out. Then how could he have been breave enough to actually go search for the neckless. Maybe he was just working undercover or something.
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Postby Hagger 9003 » Tuesday 26 September 2006 7:44:21pm

well, if regulus was deep in, or he was a spy, then yes, i reckon he almost certainly would be RAB. thinking about it, maybe it is more likely that he is... sirius was rather negative about him, but that could just be sirius being ignorant and demeaning about his family, something he did rather often...

still, aberforth is an intriguing character. is he a spy? does he know DDs secrets? for example, why DD wanted to work with an alchemist, a person whose entire job description involves immortal life, something against DDs principles? what were some of DDs plans for Voldy? if aberforth was a confidant of DD, then he could become a possible leader, or advisor, for the order. thats extremely theoretical though... :-? [/code]
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Postby Athena Appleton » Saturday 30 September 2006 10:34:29pm

Sunset Girl: You raise some interesting questions, and the best way I can think to reply is to offer a plausible timeline, based on events we know happened and knowledge of characters we know so far.

I think this is how it went down: Regulas got involved with the Death Eaters at a young age. I don't know if it was while he was still at Hogwarts or shortly thereafter. I also have no idea what his motive for doing so was. In the magical world, just like in the muggle world, there are few secrets. Think about how many people were SUPPOSED to know about the prophesy regarding the baby and Voldemort. Should have been just Dumbledore and Trelawny. But Snape overheard, and as a result, Voldemort found out (only Snape and Voldemort had only half of the prophesy, but it was enough to make them act on it). I think it's quite possible that that's how Regulas came to know about the necklace: overhearing something about it. Perhaps it wasn't even about the necklace at first, maybe it was just knowledge of Horcruxes, and he continued to do homework after that to pin down specifics. Regardless of how much he actually knew, I think the very idea of Voldemort making even one Horcrux could have shocked him into the realization that he was in too deep with a terrible, terrible, terrible man. Horcruxes aren't even written of in the darkest of dark books available, so that's the feeling he must have walked away with when he found out there was at least one Horcrux. For a short time, I think he was something of a freelance spy. He wasn't reporting to the Order, but he wasn't loyal to the Dark Lord, either. I think he may have known he couldn't continue, and maybe felt like there might be ONE thing he could do to sabatoge Voldemort's efforts before he met certain death for abandoning the Death Eaters, so he either used the information he overheard or he researched and was able to ruin the Horcrux in the cave. I don't know how long it was after that that he was killed, or if Voldemort had any idea at the time what he had done.

Your statement that if Regulas was a reluctant Death Eater, he wouldn't have had the bravery needed to do what R.A.B. (whoever he or she may be) did in the cave, is, I think, really mistaken. It is common sense, not a lack of bravery, that makes us fear very real threats. He would have had to be psychotic to not have a STRONG sense of fear regarding Voldemort after he gained knowledge of the Horcrux. That kind of fear is what makes us be careful in dangerous situations, and to do what he did would have required an enormous amount of bravery. He knew, beyond a shadow of a doubt, more than probably anyone else out there, just who he was dealing with, and he made a serious step to thwart Voldemort's efforts at immortality before facing the inevitable confrontation that would end his work with the Death Eaters, and that would end his life. To do what he did, with the knowledge that he had, makes him one of the bravest people in the books, even if it was at the very end of a career as a Death Eater.

Hagger: Was Aberforth a spy? Possibly.

What do we know?

1. He's Dumbledore's brother.
2. He did something inappropriate with a goat. (I'm dying of curiosity)
3. He was at one gathering of the Order.

I'm going to throw this in the mix:
4. We know of at least one instance of a Death Eater being in The Hog's Head (Snape on the night of Trelawny's prophesy), and we have further evidence that The Hog's Head attracts folks of a shadier nature.

What do we not know?

1. Exactly what he did with that goat (sorry. I'm going to be ticked off if the seventh book doesn't reveal that :grin:)
2. Why he only made one appearance all those years ago with the Order.
3. Why he hasn't resurfaced as a member of the Order (that we know of) this time around.
4. What his duties were with the Order last time.
5. How old he would be.
6. Whether he's still alive or not.
7. What House he was in at Hogwarts.

I don't think he would have been the kind of spy who would ingratiate himself with the enemy for a few reasons. He would have to have the physical mark as proof of serving the Dark Lord, and he would have to behave like a Death Eater, performing Unforgivable Curses and all. Snape was able to do it since he already had the mark, and his past was dark. Not to mention, Snape could use the excuse that he couldn't very well go about cursing people left and right and not have it get back to Dumbledore, so he could get away with avoiding dark magic. I seriously doubt Dumbledore would condone the use of Unforgivable curses in order to fit in, so Aberforth couldn't very well try to join Voldemort, but avoid performing the evil curses. That would have been worse than extremely suspicious.

He could have been a spy in the eavesdropping kind of way, which is how I support my Hog's Head theory. That would be one MAJOR coincidence that Snape, a Death Eater, just happened to be in the Hog's Head and overhear the prophesy, if he (or other Death Eaters) don't go there often. Fast forward fifteen years, and you could very well have Snape ingratiated (even if he is double-crossing, to Dumbledore's mind, he's an inside spy, then Aberforth could be someone to eavesdrop ("Dung" has the same responsibility, apparently, because he told Dumbledore of the DA).

All this is assuming, of course, that Aberforth is still alive (which we really don't know) and that he's a loyal, active member of the Order (theoretically, I guess, he could have turned, or he could have decided not to be involved due to age or illness, since I don't think we know how old he is, or if he is Dumbledore's older or younger brother).

I don't see how in the world Aberforth could rise up as the new leader of the Order, though. The original members saw him once. The newer members haven't seen him involved at all. It's not like this is a monarchy, where the leader's next of kin would step in after the leader's death. The fact that Dumbledore and Aberforth are brothers doesn't mean that Dumbledore would have shared highly confidential information with him. I'm of the opinion (although it's just theory on my part) that Harry was the closest thing to a true confidant Dumbledore had. Dumbledore knew Harry would HAVE to have that information, but I always got the feeling that Dumbledore didn't confide in people, and he carried the weight of that knowledge with him.

One more thing. The comment about the alchemist job based upon the search for immortality doesn't seem quite right. The elixer of life did come to be because of the work of an alchamist (spelling anyone?) This may be strange, but I don't think they went to work on trying to come up with the elixer of life with the kind of passion that Voldemort showed searching for it. I once heard that Alexander Graham Bell came to hate his own invention of the telephone. I kind of wonder if this is how Dumbledore and Flamel came to feel about the Elixer. They came up with it, and quite possibly didn't have the foresight to know some truly evil wizard was willing to kill anyone in his way to gain immortal life, even if it meant killing others, even babies and children. I've also heard that immortality actually sounds more appealing to the young than the old, so it may be that Dumbledore developed his opinion of immortality and the positive side of death AFTER the discovery of the elixer. In theory, discovering the secret to immortality seems like a wonderful thing. But when you realize the complications it can cause, it becomes clear that it's a very very negative thing. (BTW, just like the Flamels, who continued to use the magic of the elixer, Mr. Bell didn't throw out his telephone :grin:)

Without Dumbledore around, I think Harry's going to have to take charge of the Order. He has A LOT of work that he knows has to be done quickly, but almost all of it must be done by him (possibly with the help of Ron and Hermione). Therefore, I think the Order (and not the DA, but possibly the Order will accept the younger generation in, considering all that's happened) will have two main jobs. The first, naturally, is to protect Harry (which has been a major, if not THE major, purpose of the Order this time around) and the other is to prepare for war with Death Eaters, giants, and any other evil beings who are backing Voldemort up.

I think I mentioned once that when I'm tired, stressed, etc. I tend to ramble. Sorry. :grin:
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Postby Phoenix in the Ashes » Monday 2 October 2006 4:35:13am

Athena Appleton wrote:What do we not know?

6. Whether he's still alive or not.

All this is assuming, of course, that Aberforth is still alive (which we really don't know) and that he's a loyal, active member of the Order (theoretically, I guess, he could have turned, or he could have decided not to be involved due to age or illness, since I don't think we know how old he is, or if he is Dumbledore's older or younger brother).


He's alive. The barman of the Hog's Head was at Dumbledore's funeral, remember? And it has been confirmed hasn't it? That he's the barman? I'm sure it has...
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Postby Snow_Crystal » Monday 2 October 2006 9:34:59am

Funny that - my friend and I were discussing this on Friday! I think he's alive still as they are filming OOTP at the moment and there's an actor playing his part - unless he was killed after that - I don't think that happened though.
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Postby Athena Appleton » Tuesday 3 October 2006 10:37:30pm

I don't think it's ever been officially proven that he's the barkeep in The Hog's Head. I certainly think he is, there's too many clues, in my opinion. I was trying to put forth definates, meaning even though it's likely he's still alive, there hasn't been any real evidence so far to show that he is or is not. IF he's the guy in The Hog's Head, then yes, he's alive (the funeral gives the clue.) If he's not, there's no other evidence to prove whether he's dead or alive.

Oh, about the actor playing the part: of course, it's highly likely the guy will be behind the counter during the first DA get-together, but that doesn't even have to mean that. Geraldine whats-her-face has been credited I think three separate times so far for the teeny tiny role of Lily (such as showing up in the Mirror of Erised, waving in pictures, and the scene in the graveyard.) Since Harry's looking at a moving photograph, Aberforth could still be cast and credited, based solely on that. Regardless, I don't think we would find out in the movie before finding out in the books, that he's the barkeep.

Basically, the character of Aberforth is a big mystery (which I think will be solved in book 7). Since you have to assume he's the barkeep (which has not been actually proven yet), the theory that he was at Dumbledore's funeral is only a hypothesis (if he's not the barkeep, we have no idea if he was there or anywhere else). Based on actual fact, we know he's Dumbledore's brother, he showed up to meet with the Order one time before, and he did something with a goat.
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Postby Phoenix in the Ashes » Wednesday 4 October 2006 2:44:35am

Ha! found it. Searched mugglenet and voilà!

On JKRs website in the News Section article Sunday 15th August 2004: JK Rowling at the Edinburgh Book Festival - she confirmed Aberforth was the barman.

And it was taken as fact at some other sites too..

Why is the barman of the Hog’s Head vaguely familiar to Harry? Is he Dumbledore’s brother?

Ooh—you are getting good. Why do you think that it is Aberforth? [Audience member: Various clues. He smells of goats and he looks a bit like Dumbledore]. I was quite proud of that clue. That is all that I am going to say. [Laughter]. Well yes, obviously. I like the goat clue—I sniggered to myself about that one.
-JK Rowling's website.
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Postby Mafalda Weasley » Wednesday 4 October 2006 9:41:45am

Answering the first question.. Aberforth is Dumbledore's brother :grin:

Assuming that Aberforth is the barkeep of the Hogs Head, does make a lot of sense. The clues are there and I think that it would certainly be a key place for the Order to keep an eye on.

As to the possible intelligence of Aberforth, when prosecuted for improper charms on a goat (not sure about the actual charge or the crime, but quite interested to know) Dumbledore says that it didn't hurt his pride (when they are talking about family in Hagrid's Hut) although that may've been because he couldn't read all too good.

If you are a barkeeper, please do not read my next words. But there isn't a real high educational expertise for a barkeep. As long as you don't froth the butterbeer, you'll be doing ok.

So assuming what I've said is correct, then how does this affect the plot? Is it a way Harry can find out about the location of Voldemort's Head Quarters? I don't know, I guess whenever I've read the seventh book, I'll know... or is it a red herring and completely irrelevant?
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