Hogwarts, a Horcrux?

[Snow_Crystal]

Now this is where it gets a bit strange... I think he actually loved Hogwarts... I know...I know he doesn't have the ability to love but I think he actually did love the place.

But also, you have to kill to make a horcrux. As far as we know at the moment he has only killed (via the Basilisk) Moaning Myrtle at Hogwarts and her death might have been used to create the diary horcrux. I think there is an incantation that must be spoken at the point a person is killed to transfer the soul to the horcrux and the intended horcrux surely must be to hand at the time??? So if no-one else was killed by him at Hogwarts (or at least not that we know of) how could he transfer the soul over? Maybe he did this in the room of requirement, I don't know?

I just think there must be so many enchantments and forms of protection on Hogwarts that not even DD probably understood them all let alone LV.

The other thing is - interesting that you point out that he would have unlimited access to Hogwarts. I wonder what else he would have done there - research - use of the imperius etc.

On guarding the room of requirement, you can only get into the room when you want to hide something... as Harry did. Maybe the horcrux in this room was one of his first and he didn't think to protect it as well? - the cup maybe or a blood stained axe that JKR mentions in HBP. Either way I'm intrigued, the room has it's own enchantments to be sure and someone would not know it was a horcrux just by looking at it I guess. By damaging the vanishing cabinet at one end, he was reducing the chances of it being found even if only marginally.

[Mistress Siana]

Yes, I, too, think that Hogwarts is the one thing Tom's more attached to than anything else. It's home for him, and I think that he plans to reside there if he ever took over the wizarding world. Actually, that is the reason why I believe he would have tried to make Hogwarts a Horcrux.

The death is a problem, but not only as far as Hogwarts is concerned, I also have a problem figuring out when the diary was made. The memory-Tom said he'd been preserved in the diary for fifty years, right? The exact copy of Voldemort's sixteen-year-old self. So far, so good, BUT: Which death did he use? When he killed his father and grandparents, he didn't have enough information about Horcruxes yet. He had already killed them when he asked Slughorn, and while he seemed well aware what they are when he asked, he neither knew how to make them, nor if it was possible to realize his goal of a seven-part soul. After all, that was the information he wanted, so it seems unlikely that he'd already made a Horcrux before. Then there was Myrtle. She died rather by accident, popping out of her cubicle when Tom set the basilisk free. It wasn't planned, and technically, Tom didn't kill her himself. Also, he turned the diary into a Horcrux to one day 'finish Slytherin's noble work', as he puts it, and prove Lord Voldemort was indeed the heir of Slytherin. Now, it was only Myrtle's death, almost resulting in Hogwarts being closed, that made him give up his plan and decide to write the diary in the first place. You know, no death, no closure, no need to have a diary finish his work for him. So, he couldn't have used her death either. Then, in Hokey's memory, Tom Riddle looks slightly changed; thinner, paler, more handsom than ever , and an occasional red gleam in his eyes. His already changed appearance suggests he'd already made a Horcrux back then, but certainly not many. One, I'd say, not more than two. But how? DD thinks he hasn't killed in between, but he isn't sure. Why put emphasis on it, anyway, if it isn't important? I think he did in fact kill during that time, the question is whom. Mrs Cole is high on my list...

Anyway, if he turned Hogwarts into a Horcrux, and I'm really pretty sure he did, I think he would have done it after DD refused him the DADA job. I job 'they both knew Voldemort didn't want', and furthermore, a jod DD would never give him, and didn't believe Voldemort to expect to be given. DD then asks what it is that Voldemort really wants, but naturally, he doesn't answer. Maybe that's what he came back for, to turn Hogwarts (or the DADA position, I'm not quite willing to give up on that, yet) into a Horcrux.

Whoo, that was lengthy, sorry!

[Snow_Crystal]

No Worries - Mine got lengthy too! Yeah I don't get the deaths either. At the moment it doesn't add up (especially with MM) but I'm sure it will when she explains all.

I got the impression that LV wanted to teach at Hogwarts so that he could recruit more DE's and because he almost wanted to brag to DD about how much had learned about magic and stuff.

Anyway, heading off here for the day - catch up tomorrow!! Been really cool chatting with you today!!!

[Phoenix in the Ashes]

I think Voldemort, like Harry, thought that Hogwarts was a true home. They have both become attached to it, and Voldemort probably thought that Hogwarts was the wisest place to be.

He has the library.

He gets inside knowledge of all the up-annd-coming witches and wizards, and Hogwarts one of those places that rumours can get around twice before the truth has got its boots on.

[Asphodel]

I don't think the DADA position is a horcrux, but it's definately cursed. I think LV cursed so, eventually one of his undercover DE's could get the job. Or else, he wanted there to be no DADA class because they can't find a teacher willing to take up the cursed job.

[Snow_Crystal]

Hi Asphodel, don't know where that moment of inspiration came from but what a thought!! I totally forgot that he cursed the job and haven't theorised on that for ages. I agree though the job can't be a horcrux - surely it has to be a physical object or something, but I wonder how he cursed it!!??

[Phoenix in the Ashes]

I think the curse on the DADA position will only break under two circumstances: Voldemort dying, or Voldemort getting the position like he wanted.

Anyway, this whole Hogwarts, a Horcrux idea is I think much too good to be left at the bottom of this forum and ignored.

Just to add something, I definitely think that in Deathly Hallows Harry will have a conversation at some point with the Sorting Hat.

[GodrictheGriffon]

He might. But don't horcruxes leave anyone who touches them maimed. DDs hand. And LV knew that a horcrux could be destroyed and he wouldn't want that to happen to Hogwarts, now would he? He felt to much of a connection to it to have it be destroyed. It is possible though.

[youknowwho]

I addition hogwarts is not a singal object, but rather millions of objects stacked together. So a stone in one of hogwarts' walls coud be a horcrux, but not hogwarts itself.

[Phoenix in the Ashes]

But don't horcruxes leave anyone who touches them maimed. DDs hand.

I don't think we've seen enough evidence of that to prove it. I think you can touch it - Dumbledore was maimed because he tried to destroy it. I think you could touch it perfectly okay.

Yes - Hogwarts is millions of objects. So what - a shoe is the shoe, plus the lace. Everything is made up of a collection of objects. I don't know any reason why the enchantment to make a horcrux could not be put over a building etc.

Except that it would take an extreme amount of power - that Voldemort doesn't have, sorry.

So yeah. I don't think it is either.

[GodrictheGriffon]

A locket is the chain and the actual locket part. And how do you know that hogwarts isn't one piece?

[Mistress Siana]

Ha, nice one about the locket and the chain! I'd actually say Hogwarts is one part, you know, the essence of Hogwarts. Just the way a ship is a ship in spite of all the part it consists of (anyone remember Jack Sparrow's idea of what a ship needs and what a ship is?). I think it's pretty much the same. I mean, if you can enchant Hogwarts as a whole, why couldn't you bind your soul to the whole of it just as well?

Would Voldemort risk destroying Hogwart? First of all, that would be very, very difficult. Even Avada Kedavra bounces off its Walls. There are most likely several strong and ancient spells that protect the castle. Also, would Voldemort really value Hogwarts more than a piece of his soul? If Horcrux!Hogwarts got destroyed, he would be more angry about the soul bit, imo.

I just think it fits way too well to not be true...Hogwarts is a part of all Founders, the ultimate trophy, perfectly guarded by ancient magic...also, in every hero's tale, the hero has to make a big sacrifice in order to feet evil. Imagine Harry has to destroy the place he loves most...is that a sacrifice or what? I still like the idea a lot. Let's make a bet! Who wins gets cookies.

Or...maybe the Deathly Hallows guard Hogwarts?

[GodrictheGriffon]

Hmmm....You do have a very fair point, Siana. But this is not just your ordinary hero's tale. This something much greater. Not just a quest. But a Quest. But you might have just changed my mind. I'll have to give it more thought though....
Thanks for the compliment! How are we going to exchange the cookies? Who makes them? How do we know that the person who wins isn't lieing? Are they virtual cookies? Are we allowed to share the cookies, virtual and in real life? So many question!
Maybe the deathly hollows is something that Harry has to get through in order to destroy Hogwarts? Maybe we're reading way to much into this when we don't even have the book yet?!

[Mistress Siana]

So far I'm reading nothing whatsoever into nothing at all. I just love theories, all kinds of them. So, bring'em on! Everything's possible. Almost.

Well, in literature theory, it's a hero's tale, and JKR's writing has been pretty traditional as far as structure is concerned. Also, before the quest, there was the Quest. The real big ones, that's where literature comes from...the hero has to face personal loss and conflicts, he wouldn't be much of a hero, after all, if the victory just fell into his lap. Sacrifice is the key. And personally, I'd rather see Harry sacrificing Hogwarts than, I don't know, Ginny, his friends, or his life.

Hey, there's no point betting if I convinced you! And how could we be lying, we write down our theories and then we see which one becomes true. And the cookies would have to be e-cookies, I suppose, we can't very well sent food halfway around the world, right? But you can share! Also, I want chocolate!

[GodrictheGriffon]

Ok. But the cookies on my computer aren't enabled!
I haven't said that you've fully convinced me yet. And I personally think that the people in this story are closer to Harry's heart than a building. Even if it is Hogwarts. I think that it will be Remus whom Harry will have to sacrifice.