Horcrux Counting

[Snow_Crystal]

i'm totally buying into harry's scar being a horcrux, but here's something that's confusing me...at LV's rebirth in GoF, wormtail used bones of the father, flesh of the servant, and blood of the enemy (i think thats all) shouldn't a horcrux have been involved in LV's rebirth? I think so. so one of those three things should have been a horcrux in order for LV to be reborn. I think its either blood of the enemy or bones of the father. maybe LV kept a horcrux in his fathers bones. Or to tie into the scar/horcrux thing, Harry's scar is the horcrux, and just taking Harry's blood was enough horcrux to get LV alive again since Harry had Lily's protection in there too.

I agree - I think he must have had to use a horcrux at this stage as well. I remember all of those items you mention but I don't know if there was something already in the cauldron that we did not see go in - it's not JKR to miss something like that is it.

Wormtail lifted what looked like a baby wrapped in a blanket into the cauldron. Are we to assume that a horcrux to make that form had already been used?

[Phaerie]

Why would Voldemort need to use a Horcrux at his rebirth- he already has the necessary piece of soul to use. the piece that was ripped from his body when he tried to kill Harry. The part that posessed Quirrel in PS. That in GoF/ end of PoA Pettigrew infused so to speak into the tempory (babylike) body that Voldemort then inhabited till his rebirth.

[Stumpy]

Yeah i agree after attacking the potters it was only his body that died his soul was still in tact as he'd obviously gone to some lengths to protect that!

[dibble2]

I don't think Harry can be a horcrux. When Voldemort used his killing curse on him, nobody really died. Therefore his soul would remain as it was. Plus, from what he heard of the prophecy, I don't think he'd want to risk putting his mortality in Harry's hands. By the way, if Voldemort split his soul in half six times, wouldn't there only be 1/64 of a soul left in his body? Or is he good enough to tear his soul into neat sevenths? (that's not really a serious question.)

[digby202]

OK, so I just re-read the book and picked up on something I hadnt noticed earlier. Voldemort has constant reference to his red eyes, snakelike etc. . .

When Tom/LV is talking to Hepzibah Smith (OMG Zacharias Smith relative? Will come back to that) and handles the hufflepuff cup, HP notices LV's flash red, and again when he handles the Locket. Hepzibah also notices this. Anyway, I was thinking: do we know if the horcrux had to be created when LV killed the person in question to split his soul? If someones soul is split, it is still in them and could be extracted? If this was possible, would it not also be possible that LV created a horcrux at any particular time? (Im talking of course when his eyes flashed red) These would be the first horcruxes I assume, and that is why his eyes gained their first gleam of red.

Also, snowy, in reply to an earlier post about Ngani, DD mentions (as I remember) that LV made Ngani a Horcrux AFTER he lost power etc... in fact when Ngani found Frank Bryce (Riddle's Gardener) and killed him. After this time LV was very sure of his plans to rise again, and would have been confident in protecting and watching over Ngani. Also we know LV was a parseltongue, so he could control Ngani to some extent (more than usual according to DD), and keep her safe.

For the record I dont think Harry could be the final horcrux. . . what would happen after he died in the book? Post-main-character-death-narrative are lame. . .

[Tanuki]

I don't think Harry can be a horcrux. When Voldemort used his killing curse on him, nobody really died. Therefore his soul would remain as it was. Plus, from what he heard of the prophecy, I don't think he'd want to risk putting his mortality in Harry's hands. By the way, if Voldemort split his soul in half six times, wouldn't there only be 1/64 of a soul left in his body? Or is he good enough to tear his soul into neat sevenths? (that's not really a serious question.)

Once more, part of this theory is that the interference made Harry a Horcrux, not that Voldermort did it intentionally. Literally speaking, through some accident, instead of killing Harry the spell made Harry a Horcrux.

As for his death being lame. That's unimportant, it would create a sense of closure in Harry's story; though it could very easily become a thing like "ancient magic brings Harry back from the dead so he can finally finish Voldermort, and the magic is so powerful even the scar is erased"

[selene]

it's said a couple of times in the books that if your dead you stay dead, you can't come alife again so i doubt that they suddenly gonna invent some spell or find an ancient one for that

why would you want to erase his scar?

[dibble2]

So if the killing curse that was meant to tear Voldemort's soul was reflected back at him, in essence killing him...that "death" could have split a soul, I suppose, and since he was ripped from his body, there'd be a piece of it floating around, perhaps finding its way to Harry...okay, I think I understand the theory now. At least, that's how I would see it working.

[b.scheller]

Although seven, seems to be a logical number, would it really be rational to only make seven?

I somehow, don't buy into the idea, that the dark wizard, more then likely a paranoid and arrogant evil man, would rely on only seven. With all the killing he has been credited to, he has the possibility of more horcruxes, and more lives.

Is he not, trying to attempt to immortalise himself? For a paranoid evil man, seven would seem like a small number.

[Froggs]

Seven horcruxes, seven books...perhaps we have been "introduced" to a horcrux in each book, so we already know all but one...Book One would have been LV himself, and so on...Just a guess, I really have no idea what the other horcruxes are...

[selene]

even if you know what they are, you won't know where they are
great, more questions ...

[guesswhat]

It is a great line of story that Harry is on just opposite of LV, and he will defet him at the end. The first book is about love. lily's death gave Harry protection, He is untouchable by LV. The second book is about loyalty, He was save by the phonix. also remember when He was wondering why the hat decided that he goes to Griffindor. It is his determination. I do belive that LV accidently transformed his power/soul to Harry, together with the love, loyalty, friendship, his matching power, he will kill LV. Harry was a hopeless child without a family before he was 12, then he was a star student, at the end he will have to use his determination to be good as well as the love inside of him to fight his own part, which is the part of LV. The worst enemy is yourself.

[Snow_Crystal]

Also, snowy, in reply to an earlier post about Ngani, DD mentions (as I remember) that LV made Ngani a Horcrux AFTER he lost power etc... in fact when Ngani found Frank Bryce (Riddle's Gardener) and killed him. After this time LV was very sure of his plans to rise again, and would have been confident in protecting and watching over Ngani. Also we know LV was a parseltongue, so he could control Ngani to some extent (more than usual according to DD), and keep her safe.

Hi digby, I don't think Nagini is definitely a horcrux, I thought LV could just possess animals and that's what he did on the night he went to the MoM in OOTP. DD only said he thought Nagini might be a horcrux but personally I'm not so sure. DD also said that animals would not be as good at being horcruxes because they move about, are still exposed to the elements and other animals as well etc or something like this - can't remember exact words.

[child of darkness]

i dont think Nagini has to worry about other animals, she could take on anything. i dont quite remember fully but doesn't she have a jewelled eye which could be the horcrux, i am probably mistaken here as i seem to think she was described like that but i doubt it anyway.

[annachie]

Although seven, seems to be a logical number, would it really be rational to only make seven?

I somehow, don't buy into the idea, that the dark wizard, more then likely a paranoid and arrogant evil man, would rely on only seven. With all the killing he has been credited to, he has the possibility of more horcruxes, and more lives.

Is he not, trying to attempt to immortalise himself? For a paranoid evil man, seven would seem like a small number.

It's called advanced plot contrivance. Seven is this nicely mystical perfect number, LV likes symbolism and nice perfect mystical numbers, so he makes seven horcruxes. Otherwise, given the number of people he's killed, he could create hundreds and hide them everywhere.

APC is also why he hides them in significant places rather than say, dumping a couple down one of the abysl chasms(sp?) in the ocean floor or orbiting the planet in a satelite.