Sirus/Snape

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Do you feel different about Sirus/James after Snapes worst memory?

Yes, I didn't like him
32
51%
No I felt the same way about him
31
49%
 
Total votes : 63

Postby thestral » Saturday 4 June 2005 12:32:46pm

it's a hard one to call, but i think that JK showed us the scene to knock james and sirius off their pedestal and to make them more human rather than mythical great funny guys who always did the right thing and were always brave and righteous etc. (did the same thing with dumbledore, he made a mistake in not telling harry, he's human too). so i think it was mean to give us ambiguous feelings about sirius and james.

the way i feel about them now was that they were just 15yr old boys being immature and letting of steam and i do think that they regret it now, they've matured. anybody who's never done a stupid mean thing like that to show off, post now....anyone? well we all make mistakes, the best of us do and we all have regrets about the way we've treated people. oh yeah and i'm sure if james and sirius had a pensieve they would be able to show similar scenes in reverse. nothing is one-sided. i don't like the way they went about it, they really were arrogant egotistical arses, but i'm sure snape was too. (well probably more slimy and sneaky) :grin:
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Why would he do that?

Postby Ravenclawsweety » Tuesday 21 June 2005 4:47:58pm

After i read that chapter i was so mad at James more than Sirius. No wonder why Snape hates Harry so much. My friend cried after reading that chapter cuz she is like so much in love with Snape even though she is a Hufflepuff. :grin: Which i really dont know why :???:
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Postby thestral » Tuesday 21 June 2005 10:43:24pm

think it was mean to give us ambiguous feelings about sirius and james.

sorry typo "meant", not "mean"(that one word would change my point quite alot). i love ambiguitity, it's the essence of great literature, who wants clear cut black and white characters? :grin:
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Re: Why would he do that?

Postby Un'Anima Persa » Wednesday 22 June 2005 3:25:14pm

Ravenclawsweety wrote: My friend cried after reading that chapter cuz she is like so much in love with Snape even though she is a Hufflepuff.


It doesn't matter what house ur in to be able to like a character... take harry and Cho for example...
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Postby Tanuki » Wednesday 22 June 2005 6:33:37pm

Now tell me, with everything else we know about James... and the things we learned about him after the scene. Why did one chapter make so many people hate him? Were you expecting perfection? He's only human for pete's sake
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Postby Ravenclawsweety » Wednesday 22 June 2005 8:51:56pm

Yea but he was always mean to Snape that is why people hate him and i have always so more anger appears
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Postby Ginny Potter » Thursday 23 June 2005 3:04:57am

Tanuki wrote:Now tell me, with everything else we know about James... and the things we learned about him after the scene. Why did one chapter make so many people hate him? Were you expecting perfection? He's only human for pete's sake


I think completely turning on James after seeing one side of the story--completely turning on anyone knowing half the story--is really unfair. I think it does show James to be human...none of them (the Marauders or Snape) are really deserving of hero-worship...and no one is perfect. That's not an excuse, just a mere fact that we are all capable of good and evil. That being said...

We saw SNAPE'S worst memory...not James' worst memory or Sirius's worst memory. Since it was Snape's, naturually, we were going to see a time when Snape was truly humiliated and what he thought of that, maybe colored somewhat by his feelings of humilation at the time. I'm not at all saying it was at all right or that I enjoyed reading about that side of James, but at the same time, I expected it to be bad...it was Snape's worst memory after all. For all we know, Snape's BEST memory is the same situation...only with Snape humiliating James...or someone else. The point is, we just don't know...that's the first time we've seen "first-hand" (so to speak) Harry's parents and their friends at school, and we're not even sure the memory was entirely objective.

I'm not saying two wrongs make a right or that Snape deserved bullying, but like I said, we saw one perspective and that perspective was coming from a person who considered that a bad memory, thereby giving it an subjective slant. Not doubting it happened, but recognizing it could appeared worse than it was, and if nothing else, we're missing a lot of information surrounding that event (what had happened before and after that event). For all we know, Snape jinxed James a week before humilating in front of the Slytherins. What we saw was one episode between the five of them during seven years at Hogwarts...I have to agree with Tanuki in regards to it being extreme to go from idolizing James to hating him based on one one-sided episode. In a similar vein, it would be like assuming there isn't anything good about Snape or assuming he deserved all the abuse he got. I really doubt it's that clean-cut...life rarely is.

There's more to this story, and frankly, I find it makes for more interesting characters. After all, from what has been written thus far, we know James had to undergo a serious transformation in the two years after that episode to go on to be Head Boy AND marry Lily. Didn't Dumbledore say it is our choices, rather than our abilities, that make us who we are? I like Snape as a character because he's fascinating, and I even feel some pity towards him because it's obvious he's had a hard life (I'm guessing the man shouting at the woman was his father shouting at his mother, which had to be awful), however, he's in his 30s and choosing to take out his bitterness on a child, while related to an old enemy, didn't come to Hogwarts to do anything to Snape. Sirius and James are obviously not perfect, but then again, neither is Snape...and of course, when we got to see them all together, they were all at that lovely and truly kind-hearted age of fifteen...
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Postby Tanuki » Thursday 23 June 2005 3:24:52am

Thanks Hermy. You bring up good points, though I still hate Snape
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Postby thestral » Thursday 23 June 2005 8:26:26am

errr... what hermy said :grin: there's not really much more to add other than i cannot believe how quickly people have switched their allegiances from loving james to hating him, also slightly worried for these people's friends, they might not hold a door open for them one day...and then they'll be obviously black-hearted fiends :grin: . but back to james, cos of one bad thing he did. imagine making a mistake, being a human being :eek: shock. horror. :o :o :o
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Postby Scarlet Lioness » Thursday 23 June 2005 9:26:50am

I still like him because I think that Harry saw the wrong memory of James because at that time James was probably just releasing stress after the OWLS and taking out allhis frustration on Sirius!!!

Sort of like being in the wrong place at the wrong time can change peoples opinions of others...
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Postby Scarlet Lioness » Thursday 23 June 2005 9:27:11am

I still like him because I think that Harry saw the wrong memory of James because at that time James was probably just releasing stress after the OWLS and taking out allhis frustration on Sirius!!!

Sort of like being in the wrong place at the wrong time can change peoples opinions of others... :grin:
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Postby Scarlet Lioness » Thursday 23 June 2005 9:28:17am

Whoops sorry bout that, I must of double cliked on 'post'!!! LOL!!! :grin:
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Postby Ravenclawsweety » Thursday 23 June 2005 4:25:07pm

Yea, i agree, did u read the 5th book yet? Hermy got so mad when she accidently said something else to the person who was testing her. She only got one question wrong and she is so mad, whoa, scary
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Postby Manticore » Saturday 25 June 2005 1:30:12am

yeah, it made me a little mad, but after the introduction of the marauders map, and the fact that they ILLEGALY became animagi, i wasn't surprised, but when you think about it, james was in his fifth year then, he had just taken owls, that means he was 15 or 16, that is typical behavior of the popular croud on the unpopular people at that age. I mean seriously, at any high school in america, if people walked around armed with wands, that stuff would be commonplace, and i'm not condoning it, but i'm just saying, it would
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Postby Nikki » Saturday 25 June 2005 4:52:55pm

yea, that would be
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