Sirius's Death in Question

[Just Mom]

While rereading yesterday, I noticed several places where Sirius either does something reckless or is referred to as having done something reckless, that his impulsivity seems to be part of his general make-up but probably prevented him from reaching his full potential as a wizard. We don't really see Sirius in the same powerful way as we see Dumbledore or even Harry for his age. I'm inclined to think at this point that Sirius won't "come back" like Gandalf did because they're not really the same type of character. But I am inclined to think that we will "hear from" Sirius again through some other method of communication.

[Phinea Rogue]

Gandalf is so very diffirent from Sirius. Gandalf is someone not even human, a Maya (if I remember it right) and as such, he couldn't die (in a similar way that elves are immortal, though they rarely choose to come back when they "die"). I believe that if we'll hear from Sirius, it won't be directly - like him coming back, no - but there may be a portrait left or something similar.

[thestral]

I don't think that the Gandalf/sirius comparison really works because gandalf was an all-poweful being, who had ALOT of power and ahad a mysterious other-worldliness that came from him being a Maya. whereas sirius is just a man, yes a brave man (reckless and rash actions eventually him downfall though), but he wasn't a spectacularly powerful wizard. I think Rev mom hit it on the head when she said that he always seemed like like he never reached his full potential. I think that because he was locked away for so many years he never had time to mature or someting so he seems very boyish and although he's harry's godfather sometimes he seems adult but other times he seems like he sees harry as his new best friend like james reincarnated. like when he was disappointed in harry when harry wouldn't risk him being discovered in OotP and i think sirius said something like "you're less like your father than i thought" something like that but he was sulky and childish. he wanted harry to be his new adventure buddy like him and james' adventures. hence the rashness of his actions. but he did seem like he hadn't developed fully, stunted emotional growth or something. I think he should have been a great wizard but his immaturity meant he didn't have the gravitas or wisdom of dumbledore or lupin. seemed like part of the harry/ron/hermione gang more than part of the order. oh i'm being disloyal!

but despite that i do think he was always brave and scared of very little (apart from the dementors). but he was like a haunted man and i don't think he would ever have really have been happy again. he was too affected by azkaban, deaths and everything. he'd lost the smile that he had in the wedding photos and although he had moments of happiness he came across as a very haunted man, trapped in his own mind and also trapped in the past to a certain extent. maybe it was better he died, at least he didn't die trapped inside his mother's house. i think his being trapped in that house throughout OotP was like a foreshadowing of what would happen, it was a death knell really.

and i have say as much as i would like to believe that sirius will return, haha i'm back boom boom. i don't think that will happen, unrealistic and not JKR's style. this is the dark part of the books so i don't think we can expect a happy reappearance. i think there will be echoes of sirius that will give some sense of closure. i think i will have to accept that sirius is dead and gone. but the thing about the veil and the mirror just don't sit right to let me think that that's all there is to sirius's death. there's something off about it, it was a weird death that was very ambiguous which was probably JKR's intent.

[DragonFiend17]

"The next one hit him in the chest" I dunno, wow that is interesting but still he DIDNT DIE HE WAS TEMPORARILY MISPLACED -_-

[Mistress Siana]

The way I see him, Sirius is one of the most tragic charcters of the series, a promising young man who was completely destroyed by a society that had forgotten its humanity over all the fear.

And I think he was indeed misplaced. He was misplaced when they put a brilliant, courageous, good-hearted, loyal and absolutely innocent man into hell on earth and stole twelve years of his life away. He was also misplaced when he, who had been deprived of any chance to grow up, came back into a world that had gone on whereas he hadn't, desparately clinging to the illusion that Harry could replace the friend he lost. Now, he's probably at home.

He did not be belong to this world anymore. His old friends had more than a decade to move on, to grow up, I don't think he and Lupin, for instance, could ever have become the friends the once were again. Sirius was hardly more mature than Harry and his friends, who in return regarded him as an adult, especially Harry, who wanted to see a father-substitute in Sirius that he could not be. The irony of the relationship between Harry and Sirius was that each of them wanted the other to be James, and neither could. So, if Sirius finally went where James and Lily are, I really, really wouldn't want him to have to come back. Let him rest in peace.

(Oh my god, I talk about him as though he existed!)

[Un'Anima Persa]

Err... well, i think lupin likes being a werewolf...
even if he didn't, he could colm it down with Wolfsbane.


i highly doubt that DD would try to bribe lupin, and i also doubt that lupin would take the offer. If Lupin had brooken trust and betrayed Siriius and Harry (among others), it would be too much for Harry to get over.

As for the shocked look, maybe something was happening in front of him that he wasn't supposed to see, like something top secret exclusive to Death Eaters, and was distracted enough to be vulnerable (sp?) to Bellatrix's spell...

[Phoenix in the Ashes]

Or, maybe, he had a shocked look on his face because he had just been hit by a powerful spell by a powerful witch. Shock horror!!!!!!!!
Didn't Lupin say to Harry, that there was nothing he could do, and that Sirius was gone. Seems to me like Sirius is well dead. And I don't think anyone, even Lupin, could like being a werewolf.
Maybe if we're lucky we could get a view of Sirius in a portrait. Though, if you remember what Nearly-Headless Nick said about Ghosts in OoTP, then even having a portrait to talk to, wouldn't be nearly as good as an original.
All through reading that darn book I was shouting at Harry, Use the two-way mirror!!!! I was really very annoyed. It seemed like there was no way that that could be interferred with at least. Maybe that is what the Order use to handle communications.
But I suppose... this is a theories sort of site... so there could be more to the surprised look (says Phoenix grudgingly.)

[Just Mom]

Yeah, I'd have to dispute the idea that "Lupin likes being a werewolf..." It's like saying someone likes having cancer. The Wolfsbane, like cancer treatments, help, but often at great expense to a person's sense of comfort and well-being. Even with the wolfsbane, someone else was having to make it for him (which as poor as Lupin was he probably couldn't afford without a job) and he still missed classes, looked (and presumably felt) rundown and tired, etc... Nothing in the the books seems to indicate he'd choose that for himself or that he was enjoying it.

Phoenix, you are smarter than I am. I wasn't picking up the significance of the two-way mirror until after the book was read and shut. I was more bogged down in getting ridge of Dolores Umbridge. Because like you pointed out, it was such an obvious aid, perhaps Harry will try it again in the next two books and somehow communication can be established/re-established. At anyrate I do think we'll see the mirror again.

[Tanuki]

I think that two way mirror might be very important. Though I would like to see the spirits of the schools founders show up somehow. Even Slytherin, to see how much he had grown between his leaving teh school and the present, even dead. I think he might not be of the same mind on muggles after an eternity

[Phaerie]

I think the mirror may be importnat, but not neccessarily in the contact the dead type way. I think it will help teach harry to control himself and think things thorugh, because if he had though to mopen the package then Sirius might not have died.

I also think Sirius is gone. Whether hes dead or not is debatable, but whatever happened to him is permanent, People like Lupin and dumbledore wouldn't have been so certain he was gone otherwise

[thestral]

i definitly think that Sirius is the most tragic character as tragedy is after all misfortune, death etc that could have been avoided if the small details had been adhered to. we are omnipotent which just makes it all the more frustrating to see everything unravel on something as simple as mixed messages. course we're screaming at harry 'use the damn mirror!!!!'. But i was in denial for a long time (he has to come back, he will come back, it's okay he's definitly alive , etc) but i have finally come to accept that he is dead and gone and i think that is best cos he was stuck in the past, he was still living in the world of 12 years ago whilst all his friends and his life had disappeared and moved on. he had absolutly no quality of life, stuck in a house, being a shadow of his former self. and that was what he was the whole way through the series, a shadow, reminder of the past and what used to be, withered away to a mere semblance of an idealised and somewhat romantic past of jame's schooldays and the adventures of the marauders. and as mistress siana put so very well the biggest irony is that harry and sirius both wanted each other to be james both of them saw each other as a way of holding onto the past, either as a best friend or as a father.

well i do think it is best now that sirius is a peace cos he never would have found it in his life, he was too affected and tormented he seems like someone who had been eaten away from the inside and had nothing left inside to give but bitterness and nostalgia. if this sounds like criticism, the darkest most tragic characters are always my favourite. sirius was a brave, noble man and that will eventually be his legacy i think, better that. a great legacy than to live a half life and never redeem himself. long may we remember him and hold him dear. like in ulysses (the poem by tennyson that is) death is the next great adventure and has more to offer the brave warrior than the pale fading life of a mortal. to strive, to seek, to find and not to yield. tragic indeed, yet inspiring. and that is why sirius is my favourite of all the characters.

[Cedric]

personally, i think he's still alive. i mean my hopes won't be up if she say's in HBP that he is dead but she never said he was dead. the mirror that he gave harry could still be used later on. why else bring it into the story. what if when falling down in the hole, sirius lived? no wizard knows whats down there. at least i don't remember any mention of anyone saying what it was.

i also think that he may still be alive because he was jkr's favorite character. who knows i could be wrong...its far-fetched.

[Tanuki]

I think it shows just how tragic and sad the situation is, when all Harry had to do to see Sirius was to use the mirror and he ended up dead anyway

I thought it was Snape or someone who was her fave. She seemed to like the mean ones

[Cedric]

any ideas on why the mirror was metioned for in the book. i haven't read OoTP in a while but at the end didn't harry find the mirror again at the bottom of his trunk and try to summon sirius with it?

it must have some importance because harry could have thrown it against the wall because he was mad or something. thats one thing thats been puzzling me.

[Mistress Siana]

I'm absolutely with Tanuki on that one. It makes Sirius's death more tragic and really absolutely senseless, just as so meany deaths really are.