A death in HBP

[Mistress Siana]

Good you're here, carsten! I've already tried my best to convince them. Harry needs to lose protection, he wouldn't be a hero otherwise.

[Mistress Siana]

I've just come across two more quotes from our dear Mrs Rowling:

12 October 1999, J.K. Rowling Interview Transcript

'Hi, I have a question about Hagrid.'
'Oh, Cool. I like Hagrid. Ask away.'
'Is he going to be in the rest of the books?'
'Yes.'

So it won't hit Hagrid...

I don't know the exact words of the second quote, but JKR cleary said there won't be any new characters in the last book. I think that somehow narrows the choice of characters to die, doesn't it?
Like, if there's no new DADA teacher in book 7, and DD doesn't want Snape to teach it, maybe Lupin comes back?
Or Snape finally gets his dream job because there's no more DD to prevent it. I really think everything points to Dumbledore.

Anyway, I found these quotes and thought I'll be a good girl and share them with you. Any thoughts? Is JKR even being honest with us?

[carsten]

... I really think everything points to Dumbledore.

Good girl! Your comment raised another idea in me: If no new (major) characters will appear in the remaining books, who will become the next DADA teacher? It bothers me for some time now that DD isn't teaching anymore. Maybe now is the time for him to take over? Which would be the way to meet his fate as the previous DADA teachers before. I still think he will have kicked the bucket by the end of book 6.

[Tanuki]

Yeah, but Dumbledore was the Transfiguration teacher, not the DADA teacher. Besides, do we really want his last words to be "this job just might be cursed after all"

[Hagger 9003]

sorry, but DD cant die in book 6. it would be like the climax of the series, except not at the end of the series. if DD dies, harry will become majorly depressed, or will want revenge. however, if harry is going to be able to get over sirius's death, he would be able to get over DD's death quickly. then, it could concievably happen at the end of the series. i think that DD will die around the middle of the 7th book. Then, there will be a big surge of LV's powers, just before harry overcomes him. if DD dies too early, what stops LV killing harry and destroying the OotP while it is weakened? that cant happen at the end of book 6. the book wont end with everything in ruins because of DD's death. not much more could happen in book 7 then. not much more can happen after DD's death, apart from the disintegration of the OotP, which will not take an entire book.

anyway, i still hope DD will survive, but be incapacitated, or somehow stopped from leading. im very optimistic

about the DADA teacher, i reckon it will be someone from the OotP. DD wont let snape do it: harry wouldnt be able to pass DADA then, and he needs to. plus, snape is too bitter. i think it will be someone from the OotP, like Tonks or Kingsley. but then, who would be the lion man? the HBP? its confusing, especially if there are no new major characters.

[Tanuki]

Since when is Dumbledore the star of the series. Harry is the star, his fighting Voldermort of the climax. When Sirius died, Harry wanted REvenge, but he still can't fight Voldermort. If Dumbledore were to die, Harry would be on his own and would then have to actually plan how he wants to fight Voldermort, this will take an entire book unto itself.

What stops Voldermort from killing Harry... EVERYONE ELSE!!!

[Just Mom]

I still firmly don't believe DD is going to die in book 6. He's too important to the series, and he's too important as a character to JKR. She's going to give him a proper ending, one of his choosing, and not something sudden or violent.

Someone, I think it was Siana, (could be wrong here but she has a lot of good ideas) pointed out that DD is typically NOT AROUND when Harry has to face LV or some other danger. So the theory of DD needing to be removed because he protects Harry, doesn't work all that well since he's already noticeably absent in most of the crisis situations Harry has faced. DD is there prior to, or right after, but even in OotP, he only came in at the end, and after the brief battle, provided commentary. Harry's had to be on his own from the beginning. And DD has a ubiquitous quality of always being everywhere even when he's not seen. That will NOT leave the series, I don't believe, no matter where DD is physically.

Tanuki is right. Harry is the star of the series. And it's a children's book where the laws of children's lit require the children to work out their problems. There may be others assisting, but the kids can't be totally dependent on their assistance or it won't make the cut as children's litarature! Lemony Snicket is a classic example here...

[Mistress Siana]

If no new (major) characters will appear in the remaining books, who will become the next DADA teacher?

There WILL be new characters, possibly even major ones in HBP. However, there won't be ANY new characters in book no 7.

Yeah, but Dumbledore was the Transfiguration teacher, not the DADA teacher. Besides, do we really want his last words to be "this job just might be cursed after all"

LOL!

that cant happen at the end of book 6. the book wont end with everything in ruins because of DD's death. not much more could happen in book 7 then. not much more can happen after DD's death, apart from the disintegration of the OotP, which will not take an entire book.

You shall not underestimate The Great JKR!

[Just Mom]

MIstress Siana - You're far too young to be so cynical! I mean honestly, what is the possibility all will end better than we've surmised so far? Now truly THAT would be an unpredictable move!

[Tanuki]

MIstress Siana - You're far too young to be so cynical! I mean honestly, what is the possibility all will end better than we've surmised so far? Now truly THAT would be an unpredictable move!

You're never too younge to notice how unreasonably cruel the universe can be. The odds of things ending up better than we hoped are not great if we want these to be great books.

Dumledore is considered the greatest wizard in the world, yet he even admits that Voldermort has powers he doesn't. This means that in a long enough fight, Voldermort may very well pull something out that will do Dumbledore in. Also, if DD is still around, why would Harry need to fight Voldermort? Prophesy be damned, if Harry is to fight Voldermort, he needs to have all the people he used to be able to rely on not be around. this includes his friends and DD. Also, if Voldermort is to have the advantage in the fight (which is the perfect way to work dramatic tension into a fight) Harry can't have the possibility of someone saving him even in the beginning. He has to be on his own.

Plus with the seventh book, we need to see a spirit of terror and disillusionment spread as Voldermort grows more and more undefeatable. Harry needs to be backed into a corner, and for that to happen, DD can't be around at the end of book 6

[Just Mom]

I was actually kidding about the cynicism... Calm down. The universe can be unreasonably cruel. In that same way, it can be quite often actually, unreasonably kind. These things are generally held in tension with one another, as are all paradoxical characteristics.

Is it possible that there is some confusion about what might motivate Harry emotionally, to enable him to be victorious over LV? Must we all assume that Harry MUST be bereft of all support before he is able to defeat him? I think that's a bit of a stretch really and not realistic at all. Few heroes do it alone. Yes, there are some "Gethsamenes" we go into by ourselves, but even that is usually just an illusion for there are always others doing critical deeds at critical times to enable the final victory.

DD can't defeat LV. The prophesy indicates that very clearly for there is only one who can. Why LV is afraid of DD, we don't really know. Knowledge is power, and I suspect that they each have knowledge the other does not have. But since DD can't defeat LV, only Harry can do that, it doesn't really matter if DD is around or not. Harry's going to have to fight him anyway. We haven't seen all that emotionally drives Harry and shouldn't assume that desparation and despair will be his only motivation in the end. Even Harry isn't aware of what emotionally drives him. He's just a kid trying to stay alive.

It's a good theory, the idea of DD dying and that being the necessary climax to push Harry over the edge, etc., but it's still lacking in "reality," and those who push this theory always do so using the logic that JKR wants to introduce children to the darker, more sinister, "real world." Even in the real world, JKR didn't get her books written, alone. One of her dedications thanks an individual for "helping get Harry out of the cupboard." We're not little islands. Not even in stories.

[Tanuki]

...I was being calm though . Also, the only time I've seen the universe be kind is to the low class or stupid.

ust we all assume that Harry MUST be bereft of all support before he is able to defeat him?

Yes. Otherwise, he'd spend the fight hoping for assistance. More power comes from being backed into a wall than anything.

Few heroes do it alone

Few heroes get there alone, when it comes down to it, they were all alone. Why do you think warriors in real life are no fun to be around. To be a hero means to suffer, and according to the laws of drama, Harry hasn't suffered nearly enough

and shouldn't assume that desparation and despair will be his only motivation in the end

That's all that can be left in the end with the life course he's taken.

I don't know how dark the real world is, but I can tell you this, Harry Potter's 7th book isn't just a fight. Its' going to be about a war, and lots of people fall in war. Harry isn't in a bubble where he won't experience losses. He's already lost Sirius and will probably see more losses before the fight is done. There will probably be people fighting other death eaters and whatnot while Harry is Fighting Voldermort, but he has to fight Voldermort himself alone, this means that there can't be anyone to help him when he's at his most desperate.

[Hagger 9003]

you hav all ur life to be cynical, so when you r young, try to be positive.

DD is just modest. he is just as powerful as LV, just in different ways. DD is good, LV is evil, so there r differences. for one, LV is very arrogant, and pretty confident. DD isn't. DD keeps trust by being who he is in a positive way, while LV does it through power and fear.

DD doesnt need to die. it doesnt say in the prophecy that harry will hav lost everyone he knos. if he had, he would be driven mad by grief. if DD dies, harry will most likely go on a rampage. what else would any selfrespecting hero do? he would have to take revenge. but the HP books are not about revenge. revenge is a negative thing that LV does. harry cant do it as well, because then he would be on the same level as LV. i agree with you, rev mom.

i like ur point about why LV is so scared of DD. if the prophecy only affects harry, why isnt he scared of him? LV is majorly mixed up. the person who doesnt matter is DD, yet LV treats him like he is the main attraction. and he doesnt seem afraid of harry at all. why??? it doesnt make sense for LV. surely if harry is the only way he will die, he should focus on him. yet he is mortally afraid of DD, and is just angry about harry. plus, LV always fights harry on LV's terms. i wonder what it would be like the other way round. harry survives pretty well all the time, so if he were orgainsing it, he would probably win. just a though

[Tanuki]

Why lie to yourself, be negative now, it saves you the dissapointment later

Also, even with the prophesy, coud Dumbledore LET Harry go against Voldermort alone knowingly and stay behind. He loves Harry and will try to protect him. This once again, goes against the prophesy. Same with Ron, Hermione, and an assortment of other characters. They either have to be tied up or dead to let them have it out

i like ur point about why LV is so scared of DD. if the prophecy only affects harry, why isnt he scared of him?

He doesn't know the whole prohpecy, how can he be afraid? Also, if he isn't afraid, why does he try so hard to kill Harry. I'd assume he would think Harry beneath him and totally ignore him if he weren't afraid

If Harry were organizing it, he would still be a few hundred spells short and more than a few years out experienced. In other words, still boned

[Hagger 9003]

but if you r positive, the dispointment isnt bad.

i never said DD would do it willingly. plus, DD knos that harry will have to face LV in a life or death situation. he wont protect him forever. but, i reckon that DD will be incapacitated somehow.

LV knos enuf of the prophecy to kno that only harry can vanquish him. he just doesnt kno the bit about "powers the dark lord knows not" and "the dark lord will mark him as his equal". so why isnt he scared of harry? true, he might not be showing it, but that still doesnt explain DD. if he knos that DD cant be the one who will kill him, why does he quake in his boots whenever he sees him? maybe he has "dumbedorephobia".

i kno about harry tho. still, if LV is so experienced, then why does he mess it up? maybe he cant kill harry yet. perhaps the prophecy hasnt been completely fulfilled yet, i dunno. a mass murderer shouldnt have trouble with a teenager.