A death in HBP

[Just Mom]

I'll bet both of you get snow each winter. I'm so jealous. Do you know what it's like to have 60 and 70 degree temps in January? It's downright depressing... My husband is always talking about moving us north. I've requested another continent.

Siana you're very astute to point out that DD seems to never be around when Harry has to face LV. I think, and suspect you do too, that's a deliberate move on JKR's part. It's also part of writing children's lit. If you write for kids, the kids have to be working out their problems. This is a standard feature in that part of the publishing world. If you write a book where grown-ups are figuring out all the answers, you're soon rejected or told to go back and have the kids working out their problems. So that makes sense to me, that Harry would be left alone to work through these crisis times he has with LV. It's also got a coming of age theme to it with these conflicts that the young people have to grow through that will leave them forever changed. (hopefully for the better.)

Do you really think DD has to "die" or could he make some other type of critical exit? He's such a special character I can't imagine him getting killed off or something that's really contrived. I would think he'd get a special send-off, perhaps like the prophet Elijah, who "never died," but was taken up to heaven in a chariot of fire. (i'm not "rev mom" for nothing.)

If it's 5 pm here in the land of no snow, then are both of you up late?

[Phoenix in the Ashes]

Hi I'm new here people.
I don't exactly if DD will die, but if he does, it'll be for a definite reason.
1. He'll do it either as a sacrifice to Harry, sort of like Lily did, and give him the same protection.
2. He'll pass after LV is defeated, realizing his time is up and he's done everything he can.
They're ideas anyway. Whatever happens though, he'll go out in style!!!
If he does at all...
Any other scenarios to how it might happen?

[Hagger 9003]

welcome, phoenix. hope u enjoy BaO

i like the idea, rev mom. the trio are getting older, and DD sure aint getting younger. them "going it alone" would really be good. also, it would add to a situation where there seems to be no hope. maybe DD is overcome, but not killed, used as a hostage maybe, or to bait the OotP, like with Sirius and harry. however, that would be repetition, so maybe not.

i still refuse to believe that DD will die. i kno im being pig-headed, but i like him too much. maybe something like in LotR will happen, like with Gandalf

[Tanuki]

I'll bet both of you get snow each winter. I'm so jealous. Do you know what it's like to have 60 and 70 degree temps in January? It's downright depressing... My husband is always talking about moving us north. I've requested another continent.

Siana you're very astute to point out that DD seems to never be around when Harry has to face LV. I think, and suspect you do too, that's a deliberate move on JKR's part. It's also part of writing children's lit. If you write for kids, the kids have to be working out their problems. This is a standard feature in that part of the publishing world. If you write a book where grown-ups are figuring out all the answers, you're soon rejected or told to go back and have the kids working out their problems. So that makes sense to me, that Harry would be left alone to work through these crisis times he has with LV. It's also got a coming of age theme to it with these conflicts that the young people have to grow through that will leave them forever changed. (hopefully for the better.)

Do you really think DD has to "die" or could he make some other type of critical exit? He's such a special character I can't imagine him getting killed off or something that's really contrived. I would think he'd get a special send-off, perhaps like the prophet Elijah, who "never died," but was taken up to heaven in a chariot of fire. (i'm not "rev mom" for nothing.)

If it's 5 pm here in the land of no snow, then are both of you up late?

Yeah, snow is great... right up until you have to live with it. Imagine being so cold it hurts and having to walk in this. Now imagine having to shovel a substance thicker and heavier than a bucket of water and doing it a couple dozen times just so you can leave your house. Imainge salt in the sidewalks so thick it burns your dog's feet and you have to pry chunks of ice out of their paws.

The only consolation of winter is the ability to curl up under covers guilt free and feel warm

[Just Mom]

Hi Phoenix. Your #2 idea is really good, that DD would make his exit after LV is defeated. It would seem terribly unfair for him to have go through the entire series and then not see LV removed from power. But the children's lit. thing is very important so the kids (with adult help) have to be the ones working through their problems.

Hagger, I really don't think DD is going to "die" a terrible death and I don't think you're being "pig-headed." I think JKR will do his passing whether it's from active wizarding into retirement, or a peaceful death at the end of a long, fruitful life, in a way that will make it easy for everyone to say goodbye to him and he will go out in style and dignity.

[Just Mom]

quote]

Yeah, snow is great... right up until you have to live with it. Imagine being so cold it hurts and having to walk in this. Now imagine having to shovel a substance thicker and heavier than a bucket of water and doing it a couple dozen times just so you can leave your house. Imainge salt in the sidewalks so thick it burns your dog's feet and you have to pry chunks of ice out of their paws.

The only consolation of winter is the ability to curl up under covers guilt free and feel warm[/quote]


Shoveling sounds okay, prying pieces of ice out of my dog's paws is definitely not appealing. But gee whiz have some sympathy for me. We never get a real winter here and it only really snows about once every three years. (the last time was the freak snow-storm of 2002 when we got over 6 inches.) So Tanuki now you can imagine summers in the South where the fleas and ticks are so bad you can't walk out into your yard without wearing insect repellant, or having to take your dog to the vet every three weeks for cortisone shots (and your cats) because all their hair is falling out from flea allergies and they keep you up all night with constant licking and scratching which has now made yucky sores all over their bodies/.. Or maybe, try imagining so many mosquito bites that you're sure you've caught West Nile virus. I think I'd rather have the snow!

[Hagger 9003]

well, at least you 2 have extremes. being in a boring bit of northern europe, all i ever get is 2 inches of snow for two days, if im luky, and sometimes the temperature is 30 (centigrade-i dunno the conversion), but that's only at the very height of a hot summer. the only main feature of this damp country is alot of boring rain, and given the fact that i live 10m below sea level right beside the coast, all i can rely on for survival are a few dutch dams. it can be nerve racking, especially when you get the feeling that the canals are higher than they were yesterday...

[Evil Wizard Petting Zoo]

I'll bet both of you get snow each winter. I'm so jealous. Do you know what it's like to have 60 and 70 degree temps in January? It's downright depressing...

I know what you mean, I'm in Mobile, AL it was 78 a couple days, but its starting to cool down a bit. I haven't seen snow since I was in 5th grade, and I'm a freshman in college this year. Not fair!

Anyhow, I dont think DD will die this book, Harry still needs his guidance before he's able to defeat LV. I used to have this great theory on how Harry will beat LV, but too bad I've forgotten it. Oh yeah, I think that since LV has Harry's blood in him, that LV is a bit more human than he used to be which makes him more mortal. And since Harry's blood contains the love-magic that Lily gave to Harry, LV is doomed because he now has pure love in his bloodstream. And about what LV said about him having the protection that his mother gave him, I think thats bull cr*p. DD knows it is too, and thats why I think he had "the flicker of triumph in his eyes".

[Mistress Siana]

Don't you say that, Hagger, I love Amsterdam. I think it's one of the most beautiful places in Europe. But I miss snow as well. In the little town were I grew up we used to have lots of snow every year (and they have at the moment), but strangely, here in the north, there's nothing.

As I said, I don't want DD to die, I love him, but I guess I have a bad Karma, because my favourite characters always die. Sirius is already gone, and I bet everything I have on Snape not making it to the end. A question, what do you think of Lupin? I think a fight between him and Pettigrew hangs in the air.

There's one of JKR's quote that scares me. I don't remember the exact words, but the said that, if she writes about evil, she believes she has the duty to show evil taking lives, those of innocent ones and those of the people we love.

[Tanuki]

Shoveling sounds okay, prying pieces of ice out of my dog's paws is definitely not appealing. But gee whiz have some sympathy for me. We never get a real winter here and it only really snows about once every three years. (the last time was the freak snow-storm of 2002 when we got over 6 inches.) So Tanuki now you can imagine summers in the South where the fleas and ticks are so bad you can't walk out into your yard without wearing insect repellant, or having to take your dog to the vet every three weeks for cortisone shots (and your cats) because all their hair is falling out from flea allergies and they keep you up all night with constant licking and scratching which has now made yucky sores all over their bodies/.. Or maybe, try imagining so many mosquito bites that you're sure you've caught West Nile virus. I think I'd rather have the snow!

Every three years sounds nice, my back would be happier.

As for insect ridden summers. I live near the ocean, our mosquito poulation is insane. My sisters look like they have the plague

By the way, to stop bug bites on your pets, try bathign them and then rubbing Skin So Soft oil into their skin. Avon sells it, and its good at repelling bug bites. Theres also that stuff you squeeze between their shoulder blades[/quote]

[Just Mom]

I haven't tried Skin so Soft on my lab, but I have tried it on myself and it didn't work well. (bugs love fair-skinned/translucent people like me) I use the Frontline on my dog (and cats) religiously but it's so bad down here it has to be supplemented with spray and regular bathing. As Sirius Black said, "the fleas are murder...."

[carsten]

We have some excellent points in this discussion. Two most interesting ones for me are

• DD is JKR's voice.
  Yes, both Harry and us would lose JKR's voice with DD, but that's exactly what happens, when people die: It's a loss and Harry would be left alone. This is a coming-of-age story, and I don't expect Harry to be pampered through to the end. He must stand on his own without DD.
• DD is needed for the climax.
  The climax will be Harry facing LV, right? No DD around to help him (directly or through some means like in CoS). So DD has to leave the story before that. My guess is, that DD's kicking-the-bucket will be the climax of book 6 and the final crisis (with more major characters endangered; beware Ron and Hermione!) in book 7 will be the end of LV and maybe even Harry in self-sacrifice.

... she wrote and wrote and realized Sirius needed to be eliminated in the physical sense in order to get to her planned destination.

And I am afraid, this will happen to DD, too. He is the odd one out, in the end of the story.

Carsten

[Hagger 9003]

yes, carsten, you hav the main points down, but how can DD die at the end of book 6? he wont be telling all his plan before then, and plus, its such a big climax, that if it happens at all, it has to happen at the end. as well, DD has been protecting harry in "ways even he (harry) doesn't know about", so if DD died, alot of that protection would disappear. this needs to be just before the final confrontation with voldemort, because if DD is dead, what is stopping LV just killing him (or trying) instantly, when he is mourning/sad, with his guard down. DD may die, but if he does, only in book 7

[Tanuki]

yes, carsten, you hav the main points down, but how can DD die at the end of book 6? he wont be telling all his plan before then, and plus, its such a big climax, that if it happens at all, it has to happen at the end. as well, DD has been protecting harry in "ways even he (harry) doesn't know about", so if DD died, alot of that protection would disappear. this needs to be just before the final confrontation with voldemort, because if DD is dead, what is stopping LV just killing him (or trying) instantly, when he is mourning/sad, with his guard down. DD may die, but if he does, only in book 7

You're assuming Harry can't take care of himself before book 7. I think he's growing by leaps and bounds and even before the end of book 6, he'll be able to do much more than many people expect

[carsten]

You're assuming Harry can't take care of himself before book 7. I think he's growing by leaps and bounds and even before the end of book 6, he'll be able to do much more than many people expect

Exactly. Things don't happen when they should happen, but fate hits at random - both in reality and good books.

I expect JKR to make it as hard as possible for Harry, so his victory (whatever will be left of him) will shine even brighter.

Hagger, you should get used to the possibility of losing DD at the end of book 6!

Carsten