Sorry, after watching "The Two Towers" the plagiar

[JRRRowling]

Sorry, after watching "The Two Towers" the plagiarism is too blatantly obvious!

Comparison between Dobby and Gollum (of course Gollum appears in FOTR, thereby allowing subconscious "inspiration")

1) both have high-pitched voices
2) both serve "masters"
3) both wear tattered clothing
4) both are short and "elfish" looking
5) both have big eyes, are bald, skinny, short and grey-skinned
6) both refer to themselves in third-person
7) both have masochistic tendencies
8 ) both are double-minded and rebel against their "master"
9) both have pitiable life experiences
10) both are cunning and are able to escape situations

Comparisons between Aragog (LOL!) and Shelob:

1) both appear in the second book of the series
2) both are giant talking spiders
3) both have similar names (Aragog is a remarkable departure in naming convention from Rowling's typically juvenile cutesy names like Dumbledore, Voldemort or Hufflepuff. Aragog instead bears a striking resemblance to Tolkien's researched linguistically "authentic" names like Aragorn, Shelob and Balrog. One sure has to shake one's head at the obvious similarities.

Comparisons between Whomping Willow and the Ents:

1) Oh man - do they also have to appear in the second books?



And Rowling says she hasn't read The Lord of the Rings? Shyeah right.

[Cokey Kitty]

DOBBY IS NOT GREY-SKINNED!!! How many times do we have to point this out to you??!! Incase ya didn't notice, his skin is BROWN. Also, he doesn't have a split personality; he wants to help Harry but knows he can't, so he does the best he can without defying Lucius.

Aragog's name means 'giant spider.' Call it what you will, but I call that lingistic. (Boy, I didn't spell that right..oh well.) And also, if you think about it, the word 'balrog' has been around longer than JRR Tolkien's works and has always meant 'a great demon.' Read your mythology books sometime in the near future, and you may see what I'm talking about.

And as far as Ents go, they can talk, think, etc. The Whomping Willow can't do those things; it feels something within it's reach and starts swinging at it.

Quite frankly, JRRRowling, I'm getting sick of you. You're noticing the similarities because you want to, and you know damn well that it irks all of us, and that's another reason for you to want to point out such similarities.

How old are you, anyways? 'Cause if you're above the age of 16, I'd have to tell you to grow up and get a new hobby other than ruining our day and being an immature schmuck.

[Luna_Puella]

*sighs impatiently* This is getting frustrating!

I agree whole-hearted with Kayla, and REALLY have nothing more to say.

Why Paul hasn't booted you yet is the only thing I can't understand....

[Gryffindor Student]

I agree, you have been nothing but a menace ever since you came here. For one Gollum is not "Elvish", he was once a Hobbit! Anyway, I think you just need to keep some of your comments to yourself. J.R.R. Tolkien's stuff has been around much longer than J.K. Rowling's stuff. Tolkien takes his stuff from backgrounds. I even have the J.R.R. Tolkien handbook. It tells you all the characters, and everything and anything you would want to know about any of his books including the Simarllion. (I know i spelled that wrong I will check it in a minute) So if you have a bone to pick go to some website/ forum who cares!

[CloakedShadow]

I think I'm getting old...I could swear I've had this conversation over and over and over and over and over again...

As much as I regret dignifying this lugubrious topic with any form of response, here is my wretched two cents on the matter:

A lovely person here at B&O (I believe it was Sonkem) pointed this out in a previous...whatever:

posted by Harad on Lotronline forums....
The obvious answer for "aragog" is:
"ara" related to arachnid or spider and
"gog" a biblical giant.
Put 'em together and ya gots "giant spider."

Much like Rowling making a play on "Durm and Strang" when it comes to the foreign school of magic, she has undoubtedly used her skill to bring together seemingly obvious root words into these characters and settings the majority of the world has come to know and respect.

Now, what amazes me is how we here at Broomsticks and Owls lower ourselves to give response to these arguements which are becoming annoyingly repetitive.
If you will be so kind as to follow me in refering back to your previous...outburst of random insult...we shall compare:

Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2002 11:38 am Post subject: HP2 is such a shameless copy of LOTR2

HP2:
1) has a grey skinned bald elfish creature with big eyes
2) has a talking tree
3) has a giant spider

Lord of the Rings 2
1) has a grey skinned bald elfish creature with big eyes
2) has a talking tree
3) has a giant spider

compared to the recent:

Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2002 3:48 am Post subject: Sorry, after watching "The Two Towers" the plagiar...

Comparison between Dobby and Gollum (of course Gollum appears in FOTR, thereby allowing subconscious "inspiration")

4) both are short and "elfish" looking
5) both have big eyes, are bald, skinny, short and grey-skinned


Comparisons between Aragog (LOL!) and Shelob:

1) both appear in the second book of the series
2) both are giant talking spiders

Now you also mentioned something like this concerning "Dobby v. Gollum":

6) both refer to themselves in third-person

Dobby does, indeed, refer to himself in 3rd person. Gollum, on the other hand, has more of a schizophrenic way of speaking to himself and "preciousss" which isn't entirely himself or another person, but something of a cross between the two.

Again, more comparisons, shall we?

Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2002 1:46 pm Post subject: well...
Clearly "Aragog" does not follow the same cutsie childish names she typically gives like "Voldemort" or "Dumbledore". Since Rowling is not an expert linguist like Tolkien, one obviously raises the brow when Rowling goes off on a tangent in her naming style. Her inconsistency is a sure sign of inconsistent talent, and is consistent with plagiarists who copy from different sources. True geniuses like Tolkien/Blyton were never "off kilter" when it came to their style because it was wholly their own. Simple logic!

and the more recent...

Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2002 3:48 am Post subject: Sorry, after watching "The Two Towers" the plagiar...
3) both have similar names (Aragog is a remarkable departure in naming convention from Rowling's typically juvenile cutesy names like Dumbledore, Voldemort or Hufflepuff. Aragog instead bears a striking resemblance to Tolkien's researched linguistically "authentic" names like Aragorn, Shelob and Balrog. One sure has to shake one's head at the obvious similarities.

Now I would like to ask you, ladies and gentlemen...members of the "jury," why would we, who respect the creativity of authors, want to belittle ourselves with these childish complaints of a raving Tolkien fan.

I myself am a fan of Tolkien and Rowling and know that it is possible to love them both equally.

Now, with all this said, I move for a petition to remove Miss JRRRowling from our lovely forum, quicker than you can say "shameless" or "infuriating" or some lovely combination of the two.


P.S.

Gryffindor Student wrote:
So if you have a bone to pick go to some website/ forum who cares!:mad:

Cokey Kitty wrote:
Quite frankly, JRRRowling, I'm getting sick of you. You're noticing the similarities because you want to, and you know damn well that it irks all of us, and that's another reason for you to want to point out such similarities.

How old are you, anyways? 'Cause if you're above the age of 16, I'd have to tell you to grow up and get a new hobby other than ruining our day and being an immature schmuck.

AMEN TO THIS ALL

[hermionegirl09]

ok...dobby is not grey skinned and when does he rebel against his master?! youu need to get off our site or SHUT THE HELL UP!!!!!!!!
your chocie...

[Scellanis]

note: i aint seen ttt movie yet but...

i gave the exact translation of aragog

if u check u will find that it does literally mean giant spider so its not a copy of tolkien its a direct translation of giant spider

i shall say again have u read the books yet?? if u had read lotr at all...even from the first movie u ought to know that gollum is not elvish he is a hobbit plain and simple...hobbits r not elvish

as far as i know gollum isnt supposed to wear any clothing...why would he wear clothing, hes been living in the dark for most of his life, nobody can see him so he doesnt need any, why would he change and start wearing it again...in which case that means if gollum in the movie has clothing then its more likely they have copied dobby (who wears a pillow case) than that dobby copied gollum....now i admit to wearing a duvet cover while i make my bed but id hardly call a pillow case clothing

i disagree that gollum serves a master....gollum serves himself and his disire to get back the ring....his game at pretending to serve frodo is merely a means to get his ring back...the only reason he serves frodo is that it allows him to try and feed frodo to shelob in the hope he could get the ring back once shelob is finished

dobby serves lucius because his family has been the servants of the malfoys for many generations...he really does serve a master

both have high pitched voices....hmm....correct me if im wrong but i always got the impression from the books that gollums voice was a low hissing croaky type voice...in which case its a fault with the movie and not jk copying because houser elves really do have high pitch voices...it says so in the books

both r short....well....dobby is waist high to harry.....hobbits r waist high to aragorn....therefore id say that gollum being very thin and stooped would be at least the same height as harry which is not really small not when u consider hes the same size as the people hes travelling with

appearance ~ like i have said countless times appearance of dobby is typical for his species, appearance of gollum is a one off unatural evolution due to the power of the ring and the darkness of his home

both refer to themselves in the third person ~ well actually gollum talks to the ring, gollum spends his intire time talking to the ring, whereas dobby actually talks to whoever he is meant to be talking to

both have masochistic tendencies??? scuse me...anyone have a dictionary, i left mine at university

double minded...well gollum is yes...he has his original uncorrupted self locked away inside his mind which surfaces sometimes because he has been without the ring for a long time but the dominant part of his mind is the evil corrupted bit that the ring and darkness made...

dobby on the other hand has only one mind....that of the house elf...he talks untill he remembers or realises hes insulted his master and then has to punish himself for doing that...i dont call that double minded, i call that scared of his master

as for aragog and shelob

u say both appear in book 2 but when u consider it lotr has 3 books, harry potter has seven so if we split harry into a 3 book series u actually find that the whomping willow and aragog come in what would be book 1 of a trilology whereas shelob comes in book 2 of a trilology (although i had heard they cut her out of movie 2 and put her in movie 3...d'oh now i have to dread spiders again)

talking...well ive checked the book and as far as i can see shelob doesnt talk to frodo and sam....which means if she does in the movie the movie is in the wrong.....although we do get the impression gollum can comunicate with her its never said she talks as far as i know...

NOTE: shelob is female...aragog is male

Whomping willow and ents...oh fun....yay....

whomping willow is like one of those plants that eats flies....the branches and trunk can move but only if something moves itself within range of the trees reach, whomping willow is a species of tree, whomping willow cannot talk, whomping willow cannot walk, whomping willow is not a sentient being its a plant

ent on the other hand is NOT a tree....they r a whole different species of creature, they think, they talk, they walk, they communicate with other creatures, can speak several languages, have their own laws, history, songs, heirarchy, they only become trees when they give up living and go dormant.....it is possible to reawake them i beleive but its extremely hard

one other difference is that ents r male...entwives r female....they can only reproduce if the ents can find the entwives whereas a whomping willow...being a tree is both male and female and would be able to reproduce itself by usual plant methods

and like i mentioned about spiders if u split both series up equally they dont appear in the same area...if hp were a trilogy whomping willow would be in book one...ents r in book 2

[Shadow]

Yes! you really need to quit all of this nonsence. And, as far a Rowling's names being juvenile and cutesy, that may be your opinion. I, on the other hand, think that Rowlings names were very creative, even though you insist on pointing out similarities like that.

[Paul]

Why Paul hasn't booted you yet is the only thing I can't understand....

It was very tempting to do so previously but I figured I'd allow JRRRowlng to have his say - kind of a freedom of expression thing, and I guessed he might listen to what we had to say and learn. I'd also hoped he'd just disappear which he did for a while. At the very least it would have been reasonable to hope he'd move on to a new topic.

However, it looks like he won't go away willingly and seems to be stuck on the same subject as before, which I find pretty amazing considering the fact that he's already said he hasn't read the books.

Now, with all this said, I move for a petition to remove Miss JRRRowling from our lovely forum, quicker than you can say "shameless" or "infuriating" or some lovely combination of the two.

There already has been one which ended up overwhelmingly in favour of banning JRR. For the reasons I'd mentioned above I hadn't enacted a ban.

As many people here know, I'm very concerned about legal aspects of matters here and for that reason, taking into consideration rule 1 of the forum, I'm going to have to enact the ban. Sorry JRRRowling but I can't have you continously accusing JKR of plagiarism. If you want to do that, get your own board (and be prepared to pay for your own legal assistance).

[CloakedShadow]

Hoorah! Three cheers for Paul, the best Minister of Magic we've ever had!
:::Wipes tear from eye::: Albus Dumbledore couldn't have done it better himself! :::Sniff:::

[TDM]

does this guy ever shut up?

EDIT: Paul banned him? *throws party*

[Hmm]

1) If you guys are going to argue, at least read what people write. I said "elfish looking" - not that Gollum was an elf. Some idiot even thought I was referring to Orcs when I was saying "grey-skinned" in one of my first threads. Come on.

2) Gollum does refer to himself in third person when he refers to his name Smeagol - which of course Dobby does. Oh - so does Yoda doesn't he? But then again, George Lucas ADMITS that he is inspired by Rings - which is more than I can say for Rowling's integrity. Compare with the elves from Blyton's works - they are unique, not Gollumesque or Yodaesque in the least.

3) Gollum appeared in the Fellowship of the Ring movie, so obviously Jackson couldn't have "copied" HP2 when designing Gollum's clothes, furthermore - all 3 Rings movies were finished before the HP1. To whoever suggested that Gollum was modelled after Dobby: get real!

4) Double-minded means he thinks one way but does another. Which obviously both Gollum and Dobby are.

5) you people must be the only ones who can't see how obviously derivative Rowling's work is. The problem has never been about whether HP was entertaining or not. The issue has always been that her work is terribly derivative and contrived.

Check out how the first two stories ended. The first one ends with super hands, the second one ends with a super bird who of course removes the enemies powers by pecking its eyes out. So convenient. So contrived! Just like Independence day. Have you heard of the phrase "Deus Ex Machina"?

Lastly

6) I am a lone voice on this forum against the bunch of you. Must you resort to wimpish tactics like banning, and using stupid arguments like "you must be under the age of 16" (hey but some of you need a dictionary to understand my arguments).

I have never abused any of you until this post, yet some of you are incapable of logical comprehension without abusive language. If the whole lot of you can't discuss properly against ONE person, well that says a lot about your objectivity. No WONDER none of you can see how derivative and contrived Rowling's work is.

Paul: sorry to upset your party, but to be fair - I only spoke my opinion without abusing anyone. The abuses have all been from the people on your side of the room.

cheers,
JRRRowling

[Cokey Kitty]

Hey, did you not just get banned a little bit ago? When are you going to give up?

And I'll admit that I insulted you, which is something I do when I feel that I have been insulted. I don't care if I get kicked off for it or not, maybe I deserve to be booted, but I wouldnb't mind because I've stuck up for what I believe, the same as you have. In a sense I respect you for that.

But really, try reading the books thoroughly like we have, with an open mind. Then, read Tolkien's works- they're very different! PLEASE, stop finding the differences and pointing them out to us, because we wouldn't care if you didn't start pointing fingers in the first place! Heck if you want to discuss the differences and similarities with me one on one, let me know, 'cause I'd be willing. I'm one heck of a debater, once you get me started.

And I don't agree that Gollum is elfish-looking. If you go by Tolkien's description of elves- tall, beautiful, slender, peaceful and calming- he looks nothing like them! He was once a hobbit before he was consumed by the ring, and he's now a one of a kind creature. So, if you'd open your eyes and look, Rowling and Tolkien have different views on what "elfish-looking" is.

And no, I don't believe that Jackson copied HP2 in the slightest- he's original. In LOTR TTT, Gollum has only the scarcest bit of clothing covering his rump and groin area- that's it. And yes, the filming of LOTR was all done at once, but the animation in TTT was just finished probably only a few months ago.

Oh yeah, one more thing- I never said that you were under the age of 16. I simply stated that you basically have the maturity level of a 12 year old. Now me, I'll openly admit it- I can be as immature as a 5 year old, and I'm proud to admit it. "Let the good die young," my grandpap always said!

You'll be pleased to know that this is the last post you'll be recieving with my name on it, JRRRowling. I have agreed with my good friend Luna that I am wasting my valuable time on you. As Carl Sandburg once said, "Time is the coin of your life. It is the only coin you have, and only you can determine how it will be spent. Be careful lest you let other people spend it for you." So, with all do respect, I believe you're wasting your coins as well.

I apologize for spending your coin, and I promise, it won't happen again. I've got my own coin to worry about.

[TDM]

my god, why didn't Paul IP ban him? jeez...now we must go through this all over again (not blaming you, Paul, just saying that a ban isn't a ban unless it's an IP ban!)

[Lupin]

I always try to stay out of these arguments. I've been a fan of LOTR for much, much longer than I've been a fan of HP - I've read the books more time, spend more time at LOTR websites, etc. HP does indeed draw much of it's influences from LOTR and from things that have come before it...but so does LOTR.

Now I agree with some of what you say, but I really don't like you pointing out the endings of the first two books ("burning hands" and Fawkes the phoneix) as deus ex machina...if you want to see some wonderful instances of deus ex machina in literature, pick up LOTR.

Tolkien does it in The Hobbit, and he does it several times in LOTR. Heroes in an impossible situation that they won't be able to escape? Send in the eagles!

Tolkien himself admits that he had to use the eagles 'very sparingly, as they're rather deus ex machina'. I have an easier time believeing that HP's hands can burn Professor Quirrel at the end when we haven't heard it before than I can believe that the armies of Gondor were about to be destroyed at the end of ROTK...hopeless situation..but suddenly the Eagles decide to join the battle, saving the day.

Rowling has *admitted* that she draws much from LOTR - though she says that her jokes are better. Anyone who reads Harry Potter cannot help but see the influences of LOTR and many other works on it - but any student of mythology cannot read LOTR without seeing the influences of Homer, the Bible, Greek, Norse, and other mythologies and folklore on *it*.

Eh, that's enough.

--Lupin