war? in israel

[sorcerer83]

i suppose most of you saw the news and are aware of whats going on here (in israel) in the last few days...

so i thought of starting this thread first of all to let u know im completely fine and well - my home is not in the range of what hizballa (the teror organization in southern lebanon) is throwing at us.. at least not in the range of what theyve thrown so far...

besides i wanna tell u about it myself cuz i think the media usually creates a wrong impression...

so first of all there is no war here right now, though also in the media here they started using this term - wrongfully...

second what happened was that hizballa fired some small rockets on settlements close to the border here mostly as a distraction, and then attacked a millitary patrol and kidnapped two soldiers, and then destroyed a tank that went in persuit with all its crew...

now the israeli military (tsahal) is bombing targets in lebanon - both military posts once owned by israel and currently by hizballa very close to the border,
and utilities and infrastructures and military camps inside lebanon.
there may also be a ground invasion but that would be quite hard to do cuz the public oppinion is, at least right now, against it...

right now i dont want to get into what should be done and who is right, id be happy to talk about that too but first i wanna know what the moderators and paul think about it cuz i still havent seen any political discussion here in bao...
but any questions u have conscerning what is going on - ask and ill answer to the best of my knowledge and understanding, and if its ok soon we can discuss political and moral aspects of it as well...

[Snow_Crystal]

sorceror! When I heard it on the news yesterday you were the first person I thought of! I'm glad you're ok - just make sure you look after yourself. The media always make things look really bad - I guess in some ways it's not their fault as by the very nature a lot can be taken out context when photos are shown.

Just keep posting for us otherwise we'll worry about you!

Snow!

[sorcerer83]

thanks snow nice to know u care...
and dont worry ill sure keep on posting, well unless they draft me ...
but that doesnt seem too likely right now...
and i agree that the media is not the only one to blame, cuz at the end of the day they just give us aproximately what we want to see
so maybe its more our taste that is the fault...

[Mint]

Sorcerer - glad to hear you are ok!!

About the media - yeah, you probably right about people's "taste" in the news. But its natural that more people will be watching TV if something "big" was happening. (bad or good)

Take care of yourself Sorcerer!

[sorcerer83]

well now the rockets hit tiberias - which is about 20 k"m - 13 miles from me..
so theyre getting warmer the hizballa... anyways we still didnt get an oreder to get into the shelters...
ok thats all for now

[sorcerer83]

well... things arent getting better, this morning after a quiet night about 10 rockets hit the port at haifa bay (israels main port), and apparently 8 people were killed and dozens more injured...

there was a proposal by the primem minister of lebanon for a cease-fire that would be enforced by the lebanese army that will deploy in southern lebanon, and the un, but israel did not agree, saying that first the kidnapped soldiers must be returned and untill they are thered be no cease-fire. personaly i think thats just an excuse -
the problem is that the fighting is not against the lebanese government and army but against the hizballa which is a teror organization, so i think that what our government thinks is that the lebanese army and the un will not be able to stop hizballa by themselves and therefore they dont want to commit to cease fire -
the lebanese army is weaker then hizballa and the un isnt much trusted mostly after the last time hizballa kidnapped israeli soldiers when there were accusations against the un for not stopping if not actually allowing and may be even helping the kidnappers

i said that the fighting isnt against lebanon itself but among other things tsahal bombs also lebanese civilian utilities - the reason is to encourage or force their government to take responsibility which contradicts a bit what i say about israel not trusting the strength of the lebanese army, so i cant tell u im sure about this stuff
ok thats for now.. and, well, since no one said differently - not here and not personally to me, i guess we can start talking about the politics behind all thats going on...
so best is if any1 has any question or oppinion about all that stuff just post and ill answer to that

[sorcerer83]

well nothing much new - all the cities and towns in the north of israel are being bombed every day - i think there are about 13 killed here...

in lebanon tsahal cintinues to bomb - many supply trucks are being bombed - trucks that go in the vicinity of the israeli border and are suspected of delivering weapons, due to that many civilians got hurt, although tsahal warned the people there to stay away of the terorists and the border

[Mint]

hope it'll get better soon...

[sorcerer83]

seems to me like its gonna get worse before better...
im starting not to like what our military is doing - too many civilians are getting hurt, and now they issued a statement - that all civilians should evecuate from southern lebanon - and people in israel say its a sign that theres gonna be a ground invasion

[Chimera]

It's good to hear you're OK. Regardless of who is right or wrong, it's always wrong if civilians get caught up in it.

[sorcerer83]

yeah and now the civilians are the middle of it... the hizballa is bombing civilians and firing from within civilan settelments and houses...

[Chimera]

And Lebanese civilians are also dying. They should use ground troops, nobody is justified in using bombs against a civilian area. I say this having been a soldier myself: I'd rather be sent out to do my job and get killed than have civilians die needlessly just to keep the government from looking bad when my coffin comes home.

A soldier of any nation or any political leaning is there to protect civilians, not to bomb them.

[sorcerer83]

true in generall but very problematic...
im not sure whether israel has enough military strength to do what u suggest - which may lead to a very long gerrila fight - look at vientam and iraq if the us had such troubles there im not at all sure how effective israel can be against hizballa in the way youre suggesting... and then more and more israeli civilians will get hurt
i do not accept everything my goverment does and do not trust them or the army in any case, but i am quite confident that tsahal is one of the most ethical army and that they do almost everything possible to prevent the deaths of innocents, as long as they still get necessary results to ensure the safety of israel - perhaps they should take more precautions in the price of less consequences but its hard to know that with out knowing exactly whats going on and what measures are taken (or not) to prevent hurting innocents, and its hard to decide where to draw the line. and again hizballa is doing everything they can to get the civilians in the line of fire - so that they would hate israel more...

[Chimera]

tsahal is one of the most ethical army and that they do almost everything possible to prevent the deaths of innocents

Umm... Palestine?

[sorcerer83]

i think also on that front we r very ethical - not talking about the israeli policy but about the militarys ways of action - i know for sure that if it were the usa there and probably also the un or nato - then thered be alot more palestinian dead - the way the americans fought afganistan for example - bombing whole villages to get a few wanted men - is nothing like the way tsahal is fighting, i think we have this reputation of being very unethical and immoral but i think it comes out of two things:
1. the problematic fronts we have and the way our enemies always put civilians in the line of fire - "their" civilians mostly
2. our foreign policy and the occupation which is surely a wrong thing only now maybe necessary