Dumbledore's death, a ruse? *theory discussion*

[Nightcrawler]

Although I don't buy into that theory; it is highly imaginitive, and works nicely. There was a vampire visiting the school and everything. It only works though if Snape is evil (which I doubt) and he didn't know that Dumbledore was a vampire. With Snape's extensive knowlege of the dark arts, it would be kinda hard for Dumbledore to hide this from him.

Sadly, it is all too frequent in stories for a character to come back from the dead, and when this happens, it makes the whole idea of death lose a lot of importance. I think JKR is trying to avoid that. IMO, Lily, James, Sirius, Cedric and Dumbledore just aren't coming back.

[SunsetG|rl]

Lily, James, Sirius, Cedric and Dumbledore just aren't coming back.

Totaly agree. As I've said before: Harry must be alone in his last fight! And I doubt that portraits or other things like that will come in handy with advices or considreable help. I just think that maybe Doubledore made sure in case he was going to die, Harry could manage to continue his mission. So probably he left clues, or letters, or something like that, in which way he could sort of ensure his "presence" in the future.

[Phoenix in the Ashes]

Dumbledore has got style, and he obviously new that it was his time to go, just maybe not so soon.
As soon as he heard the prophecy he knew that he would not ever destroy Voldemort, so he knew that Harry had to do it on his own. DD didn't plan his death, and it mgiht have come unexpectedly, but he still welcomed it, I think.
His potrait may communicate, but it'll probably just mutter "Oddment, Nitwit, Blubber, Tweak" every few minutes, or crack a slightly amusing joke in the middle of a conversation.
DDs real value will be shown in how he lived his life.
He won't be truly gone until none left are faithful to him... which will never happen.

[Lord Malvient]

Even though I would like to think that DD is dead ,as it does not do justice
to such a good character to come back from the dead (as we see in many soaps) , there is one part where Hagrid and Slughorn are drunk and singing in the chapter named "After the Funeral" or something like that,
where one of them(Horace,I think) sings about a wizard named Odo who has died and his wand is broken at a funeral or something similar (I don't remember the exact song).But I don't remember anybody breaking DD's
wand at his funeral.
Also we know nothing about the nature of the potion that DD drinks in the cave .For all we know ,it might have been a poison that had no antidote & if I remember correctly when Snape comes onto the tower he doesn't immediately attack DD . Infact, it is almost as if he tries to see DD's condition before deciding that he can't help him anymore.That might also explain the reason DD asks to see snape first and not madam pomfrey.
DD's death might also be a sort of inspiration for Harry to fight on,not unlike Neo in "the matrix" after Morpheus's capture .

[Tanuki]

They didn't break his wand at his funeral, they said his wand was inside out and his wand was snapped in half, which leads me to believe that that is how he died

DD's death might also be a sort of inspiration for Harry to fight on,not unlike Neo in "the matrix" after Morpheus's capture .

I can't believe you would say something like that. Do you think for a second that Dumbledore would do that to Harry just to get him to fight, and do you think that Harry didn't have enough inspiration as it is? That's a horrible thought, and why are you trying so hard to forgive Snape?

[Lord Malvient]

The reason why Dumbledore trusts Snape hasn't been revealed entirely and I don't think that DD would just take a former Death-Eater's word for it . After all DD wouldn't have trusted Snape just because of snape's regret that James and Lily died because of him.
There has to be a better reason than that for DD's trust in snape.
When Dumbledore knew that Draco was sent to kill him , he would have had doubts about Snape's loyalty and so wouldn't have asked him to help the Order. We don't even know what kind of "spying" he is actually doing.
But whatever it is , it is going to play a very important part in the seventh book .
However, if I am wrong , and Snape is actually evil , then the seventh book may be simply too straight-forward , except for maybe the mysterious R.A.B character.

[Tanuki]

They've said repeatedly that Dumbledore puts too much faith in the good in people. He is one of those people who would buy Snape's story that he regretted what happened. After all, he think the bond that Snape had when James saved his life means something to Snape. Dumbledore has SAID that he is fallable, and that he can make mistakes. Why do you guys seem to think that he had a plan for everything and that it was a perfect plot to get Harry to fight Voldermort. Harry doesn't need help a nudge to fight Voldermort. and why is everyone looking for the twist to be Snape being good. Maybe the twist is that Harry is the last Horcrux. Maybe Neville is the one who kills Voldermort. I think Snape being a traitor is a nice enough twist for the series since we've been forcefed this bull that Snape is actually good for 6 books. It's actually worse than Moody turning out to be Barty Crouch

[Snow_Crystal]

Dumbledore readily accepted that he was fallible I agree but do you really think he is stupid enough to not have foreseen and prepared for the full rise of LV and his own life being in danger at some point.

I refer to a passage in the last chapter of PS (UK version P215).

"...to the well organised mind, death is but the next great adventure..."

To me this sounds like Dumbledore had already made preparations for his own death even by the time of the first book. He may not however made exact preparations until HBP demonstrated by that argument he had with Snape near the forest.

[Tanuki]

How do you prevent a traitor? No one can see everything and no one can prepare for everything. He knew his life was in danger, but no one can say how much at any given point.

As fo the prep for his death. Maybe he just means that he doesn't fear death and that he is prepared to die at any time. Do you honestly mean to tell me that Dumbledore knew he was going to die? If so, why would he have been caught up in Draco's trap so well?

[Lord Malvient]

As far as we know , Voldie did not want anyone to know he was back. That is
why he did not go to the department of mysteries himself first . So if Snape
really had Voldie's boy, he would not have gone and told Dumbledore that the darkmark on his and Karkaroff's left arms were more prominent than ever,signifying Voldie's return to power . But we do see him in one of Dumbledore's memories in the Pensieve telling Dumbledore exactly that.
Also the way he orders everyone to move out of the castle once he kills
Dumbledore seems more like damage-control to me.

[Snow_Crystal]

How do you prevent a traitor? No one can see everything and no one can prepare for everything. He knew his life was in danger, but no one can say how much at any given point.

As fo the prep for his death. Maybe he just means that he doesn't fear death and that he is prepared to die at any time. Do you honestly mean to tell me that Dumbledore knew he was going to die? If so, why would he have been caught up in Draco's trap so well?

How do we know that DD didn't know Snape would be treacherous in the end? Lets get one thing straight, I'm not saying that DD was trying to prevent a traitor. Merely that he knew he was going to die at some point - after all everyone dies at some point, DD was just prepared for it and that I think is demonstrated by what he said to Harry in the first book.

In terms of how it happened, I don't think he knew for sure what circumstances would be his downfall, but then again how do we know that as well - Trelawny made her second prediction of the lightning struck tower - how do we know she didn't predict Draco's trap and inform DD?

[SunsetG|rl]

Do you honestly mean to tell me that Dumbledore knew he was going to die? If so, why would he have been caught up in Draco's trap so well?

Dumbledore expected probably something from Draco, just that he didn't know very exactly what he was doing. Not until the end did he figured out things so well. And I think he wanted to leave Draco alone to see if he himself realises what he's into, because probably he still held hope for Draco in his old and forgiving heart. And plus, the moment the Death Eaters came into the school, Dumbledore was weak, and rather off guard. And I think he realised the high possibility of death, and that from the begining of this war.

Trelawny made her second prediction of the lightning struck tower - how do we know she didn't predict Draco's trap and inform DD?

Well that's why Dumbledore kept her close all this years, isn't it? But then again what if she made predictions all alone in the room or something...and then she couldn't remember what she said cause whenever she predicts thing right she is in a trance. But usually she makes predictions to someone... So yes... That's a good ideea... Dumbledore might just have known from her.

[Snow_Crystal]

I'm a bit vague on whether she remembers her predictions or not. DD wasn't sure she remembered her "first" prediction, she didn't seem to have a clue about her prediction in PoA but in HBP she seemed to be quite aware of it. it's difficult to know I think.

I think DD kept her close for her own protection but also in case another signficant prediction was made. I wonder if DD recorded his memory of the lightning struck tower conversation he had with Trelawny so it could be used in his pensieve.

[crystallised_pineapple]

i don't think so because i thought he had to actually take the memory from his head or something along those lines and he didn't although now he's gone i'm not sure whether those rules apply...

[Tanuki]

but then again how do we know that as well - Trelawny made her second prediction of the lightning struck tower - how do we know she didn't predict Draco's trap and inform DD?

1) DD doesn't put too much stock in prophecies

2) prophesies are known for being vague