Trelawny

[Augusta Longbottom]

I thought I'd start a topic for discussion about Prof. Trelawny. Froggs mentioned this in another post and I agree it deserves a post of its own to discuss it.

In HBP, near the beginning of chapter 10, Harry is on his way to Dd's office and this is what the book says:

Harry proceeded through deserted corridors, though he had to step hastily behind a statue when Professor Trelawny appeared around a corner, muttering to herself as she shuffled a pack of dirty-looking playing cards, reading them as she walked.
"Two of spades: conflict, " she murmered, as she passed the place where Harry crouched, hidden. "Seven of spades: an ill omen. Ten of spades: violence. Knave of spades: a dark young man, possibly troubled, one who dislikes the questioner ---"
She stopped dead, right on the other side of Harry's statue.
"Well, that can't be right, " she said, annoyed, and Harry heard her reshuffling vigorously as she set of again.


So what are everyone's thoughts about Trelawny in general? Is she a fraud, does she have the "gift", I mean, we know about her prophecies, but other than that we'd been led to believe she was a tipsy/drunken fraud. The discussion doesn't have to pertain to that passage, just Trelawny in general.

[Mistress Siana]

Yeah, I wondered about her as well, since she seemed to be on the right track in this book. She wanted to warn DD about the lightning struck tower...the title of the chapter in which he dies...Also I'm quite sure her prediction about the "Knave of spades: a dark young man, possibly troubled, one who dislikes the questioner" refers to Draco. So it seems she can actually read the cards...hm.

[Lelie]

i thought the dark young man was snape. i never thought of draco as being "dark", although i can see how you get there. i think she does have "the gift," she just doesn't realize that she can't really control it. her version of divination is pretty useless.

[Froggs]

<lol> I thought the dark young man was Harry, I figured the cards "sensed" him as he snuck by her, which is why she couldn't understand what the cards were saying since she could not see HP. And HP does dislike Trelawney, whom I thought was the "questioner"...the one asking questions of the cards.

[Froggs]

Left this out...I thought dark was referring to hair color, but it can apply to "dark" as in "evil", or even just "guarded".

[Fweegal]

I think it's very interesting alright.

Trelawney was one of the best things in the book. I cracked up when she referred to Firenze the centaur as "Dobbins" the mule!!!

[Broccoli]

an ill omen - does it refer to the dark mark that was only set as a trap?

[thestral]

i think trelawney will die in the next book, probably be killed by DE's or something. for the purposes of keeping the prophecy a secret, i think she'll be involved in some sort of 'accident'.

i mean, she could maybe be taking a drunken midnight stroll along the battlements and look over too far and just lose her balance.... ?

[Lelie]

more likely that she'll die on that drunken stroll! then again, i think ALL of trelawney's strolls are drunken.

i don't think she remembers having made the prophecy. why would anyone kill her for having made it if she can't remember that she did?

[thestral]

yeah but i don't think that matters, she's the living record of the prophecy which i think puts her in an extremely precarious position.

[Anna Black]

I think Trelawny is absolutely sure she has the gift...of course I think she is completely oblivious half the time...when she does make actual real predictions, I don't think she feels they are any different than her normal baseless ones. Most of the time she is good only for laughs, but she does occasionally do something real...when she was thinking out loud about those cards, I definitely feel she was on to something

she has a gift...in one book her face went blank and she made a prediction, afterwhich she didn't know what she had said...the prediction took over her body...I forget which book that was in, will have to look


Pssst!---sign up for the Hogwarts prom in the great hall forum...prom king and queen to be decided!

[Augusta Longbottom]

i don't think she remembers having made the prophecy. why would anyone kill her for having made it if she can't remember that she did?

I agree with thestral that it might not matter -- well, my thought is that whoever (LV or a DE) may not know that she doesn't know when she's made a prophecy. She is unaware when these things happen but if someone learns that she's made a prophecy, they may think she knows the details of it when in fact she doesn't. LV or a DE aren't going to believe her if they insist she reveal what was in the prophecy and she says "I don't know" -- they;d think she way lying.

[Lelie]

excellent point... hadn't thought of it that way. i suppose you could be right. it would be interesting to find out what she can remember or predict under pressure. do you suppose lv could get her to repeat the prophecy in some way (such as the spell he put on bertha jorkins?) that would be interesting. who KNOWS what she would start spouting then!

[Augusta Longbottom]

I am rereading HBP now and ran across this last night. Dd is talking to HP -- HP is mentioning that Trelawny isn't happy that Firenze is still teaching there. Dd says:

"Divination is turning out to be much more trouble than I could have foreseen, never having studied the subject myself. I cannot ask Firenze to return to the forest, where he is now an outcast, nor can I ask Sybill Trelawny to leave. Between ourselves, she has no idea of the danger she would be in outside the castle. She does not know -- and I think it would be unwise to enlighten her -- that she made the prophecy about you and Voldemort, you see."

This is along the lines of what we've been discussing. Then later in the book when she runs into HP outside of the room of requirment, here is a bit of that conversation:

"If Dumbledore chooses to ignore the warnings the cards show ---. Again and again, no matter how I lay them out ---" And she pulled a card dramatically from underneath her shawls. " --- the lightning stuck tower," she whispered. "Calamity. Disaster. Coming nearer all the time..."

So again it seems she is reading the cards with some accuracy.


(The first passage is from Ch 20 p. 427 and the second passage is from Ch 25 p. 543 US ed)

[Broccoli]

I just thought - even if she doesn't remember making the prophecy, maybe it's still possible to extract it from her memory?