...Dumbledore had been secret keeper for the Potters?

What would have happened if The Sorting Hat had insisted on sorting Harry into Slytherin? Or what if Harry had become friends with Draco Malfoy instead of Ron during their first journey on the Hogwarts Express? Wander into alternative Harry Potter universes here.

Moderators: Run Away!!!, Un'Anima Persa, *Riley*

...Dumbledore had been secret keeper for the Potters?

Postby Mistress Siana » Friday 7 January 2005 8:49:56pm

There's one thing I can't get out of my head.
We know from the prophecy that the boy with the power to defeat the Dark Lord would have to be marked as his equal by Voldemort himself, thereby giving him his power. If this hadn't happened, if Lily and James hadn't died, there would be no possibility to ever defeat Voldemort. My point is: Dumbledore knew this. And he volunteered to be James and Lily's secret keeper. But did he really have an interest in protecting them when he knew that their death was their only chance? What would he have done if he'd been secret keeper?
User avatar
Mistress Siana
Slytherin Chaser and Devil's advocate
 
Posts: 1862
Joined: Thursday 12 December 2002 5:40:13pm
Location: Palace of Tears

Postby Phinea Rogue » Sunday 9 January 2005 1:58:21pm

Do you mean that Dumbledore knew about the prophecy and the only way to kill Voldemort would be to have him mark Harry, but also to kill James and Lily? I think he had an interest in protecting them, not matter what the prophecy was like. He maybe believed that Voldie may mark Harry without actually killing James and Lily (he seems like believing there's something good in everyone).
User avatar
Phinea Rogue
Slytherin Prefect
 
Posts: 1252
Joined: Friday 5 December 2003 8:51:50pm
Location: hiding from the moonlight

Postby Broccoli » Monday 10 January 2005 1:45:28pm

I also think that he didn't know about the exact way Voldemort had to mark Harry.
User avatar
Broccoli
Slytherin Prefect, Healer at St Mungo's and Slytherin Chaser
 
Posts: 1797
Joined: Thursday 4 July 2002 1:00:00am
Location: the Moon

Postby Mistress Siana » Monday 10 January 2005 8:55:12pm

Then why did they let the eavesdropper get away? If Voldemort had not known about the prophecy, he wouldn't have gone after Lily and James in the first place. And why didn't they just tell Voldie 'you know, mate, the prophecy says you have to mark him first before he gets the power. Just don't touch him and everything's gonna be allright'? Both options would have spared Lily's and James's lives, but they'd also have destroyed every chance of defeating the Dark Lord. What would you have done?
User avatar
Mistress Siana
Slytherin Chaser and Devil's advocate
 
Posts: 1862
Joined: Thursday 12 December 2002 5:40:13pm
Location: Palace of Tears

Postby Hagger 9003 » Monday 10 January 2005 9:44:17pm

if you think about it, marking doesn't have to be physical. if DD was the secret keeper, and didn't give him away, LV still would have thought of harry as the enemy, so would have "marked" him in his own mind.

of course, then LV would have gone on with his rampage, killing more people. maybe that was why DD wasn't secret keeper: he might have manipulated everyone so that the Potters would be betrayed.

in fact, if lily hadn't died for harry, it would have been impossible for the prophecy to come true for harry, cos "he will have powers the Dark lord knows not", and without the love, he has nothing LV dont kno about. so if DD was secret keeper, he had no choice.
User avatar
Hagger 9003
Fully Qualified Wizard
 
Posts: 507
Joined: Saturday 8 January 2005 10:48:40pm
Location: Amsterdam!!!!

Postby Mistress Siana » Saturday 15 January 2005 3:13:09am

Here! I have a proof (or something close to it):

Dumbledore presented the prophecy to Harry by showing him his own memory in the pensieve. According to him, the prophecy was made when he had just turned around to leave Sybill Trelawney's room above the bar of the Hog's Inn.

"When Sybill Trelawney spoke, it was not her usual ethereal, mystic voice, but in the harsh, hoarse tones Harry had heard her use once before:

'The one with the power...'" (p.741 British edition)

etc, you know the prophecy, one text, no pause. So, if there had been an eavesdropper that was thrown out after the first two lines, why wasn't that part of his memory? The whole story about the mysterious eavesdropper has as many holes as Moody's face. Why would anybody want to pay attention to a conversation between Dumbledore and an applicant for Divination, remain undetected just until that important moment? It was, after all, not even in the bar itself. Who was it that threw him out anyway? And if there were more witnesses to the prophecy, why is it only labled SPT to APWBD?

You know what I think? The prophecy was made to Dumbledore without disturbance, but Dumbledore, in his wisdome, realised that it could only work if the Dark Lord knew. So he sent Snape to tell Voldemort he'd just overheard those two lines.
User avatar
Mistress Siana
Slytherin Chaser and Devil's advocate
 
Posts: 1862
Joined: Thursday 12 December 2002 5:40:13pm
Location: Palace of Tears

Postby Broccoli » Monday 17 January 2005 2:02:09pm

That makes sense to me! This could also explain Snape's role as a spy.
User avatar
Broccoli
Slytherin Prefect, Healer at St Mungo's and Slytherin Chaser
 
Posts: 1797
Joined: Thursday 4 July 2002 1:00:00am
Location: the Moon

Postby Hagger 9003 » Monday 17 January 2005 6:02:12pm

i agree too. if DD is planning evrythin, it would explain the bit at the end og GoF, when he has "a look of triumph" on his eyes. i think that this is just all part of the plan
User avatar
Hagger 9003
Fully Qualified Wizard
 
Posts: 507
Joined: Saturday 8 January 2005 10:48:40pm
Location: Amsterdam!!!!

Postby DragonFiend17 » Sunday 13 February 2005 2:06:40am

It certainly fits....
DragonFiend17
Fully Qualified Wizard
 
Posts: 178
Joined: Sunday 13 February 2005 1:00:48am
Location: New Jerzee eating muffins... :)

Postby Un'Anima Persa » Sunday 13 February 2005 2:08:40am

that could definitely be a good addition to the plot... and dumbledore's importance... but it is also another reason to ill off dumbledore... :( :cry:
User avatar
Un'Anima Persa
Ravenclaw Prefect
 
Posts: 3326
Joined: Saturday 12 February 2005 10:50:19pm
Location: In mourning.

hey

Postby Bextra » Thursday 21 April 2005 6:05:02am

That is a really hard question and i dont think that DD knew that Lily and James had to die in order to defeat LV. :???:
User avatar
Bextra
Flame Retardent Girl, With Attitude
 
Posts: 379
Joined: Tuesday 19 April 2005 5:44:45am
Location: Sitting on the roof of the owlery playing the harmonica.

Postby Heidi_hoho » Sunday 29 May 2005 4:41:58am

I think that if Dumbledore had been the Potter's secret keeper, the entire HP world would be different. For one thing, Voldemort would have never have been defeated by Harry (or semi-defeated, anyway). And Lily and James would still be alive, probably Sirius too. And Harry would have grown up knowing Remus. And Peter would never have been discovered as a traitor. And who knows, Harry might have even had some siblings.
Heidi_hoho
Fifth Year Student in Witchcraft and Wizardry
 
Posts: 82
Joined: Sunday 29 May 2005 4:34:09am
Location: Waiting for HBP!

Postby Phoenix in the Ashes » Sunday 29 May 2005 5:32:15am

Nothing would be the same...
Actually,. I think that if DD had been the Secret-Keeper then LV wouldn't have marked Harry, he would have marked Neville instead... So maybe things would turn out the same, just with a different person.
User avatar
Phoenix in the Ashes
Guardian of the Vault, RPG Moderator and Slytherin Prefect
 
Posts: 5352
Joined: Monday 24 January 2005 6:45:40am
Location: Wandering around the RPG Area

Postby Heidi_hoho » Sunday 29 May 2005 6:05:18am

but if you read what JK Rowling said in reply to the last FAQ poll, she said something about how one of the main questions of HBP is if Neville had been chosen, would his mom have been brave enough to do what Lily Potter did? I don't know the exact response or anything, but I think it seemed like she wouldn't. So Neville wouldn't have had that mother's sacrifice going for him and he would have died and Voldemort would have remained in power. I think.
Heidi_hoho
Fifth Year Student in Witchcraft and Wizardry
 
Posts: 82
Joined: Sunday 29 May 2005 4:34:09am
Location: Waiting for HBP!

Postby thestral » Wednesday 15 June 2005 3:41:24pm

i don't see why neville's mum wouldn't have died to protect him, she was tortured to insanity, she was obviously brave. and i think any mother would die to protect their child.

also i like your theory mistress siana, and like hagger said about the "look of triumph" every time i read that bit those words really jump out at me and bug the hell outta me. but i can't even to begin to speculate what is going on there, so it just annoys me.
User avatar
thestral
Rogue auror, avenger of lost souls
 
Posts: 531
Joined: Thursday 2 December 2004 2:07:48pm
Location: beside the veil waiting for sirius

Next

Return to What If?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron