What if Harry had let Lupin and Black kill Pettigrew?

[Lizzy Bennet]

As probably everyone knows, Lupin and Black were ready to kill Pettigrew (a.k.a. "Wormtail") in book 3, but it was Harry who stopped them. It was also Pettigrew who, after escaping, went back to Voldemort, aiding in several murders, including Cedric's, and ultimately leading to the resurrection of Voldemort...

If "Wormtail" had been killed, would someone else simply taken "Wormtail's" place? Barty Crouch, Jr. certainly was eager to help Voldemort, but he was used to successfully get Harry to the Tri-Wizard Cup to be teleported to the graveyard. Perhaps another faithful Death-Easer might have helped...

What are your thoughts?


~ Lizzy

[Ju-DedoH]

certainly another death eater would have been proud to help VD so closley (may I say it would be an honour for them), but maybe if wormtail was killed, harry would have had problems beleiving that sirius was innocent and all, since he wouldn't have seen wormtail beeing evil, thus maybe he wouldn't have wanted to try and save sirius ...

[Smite]

It would have proven Trawlnery really was a old fraud

[Lizzy Bennet]

certainly another death eater would have been proud to help VD so closley (may I say it would be an honour for them), but maybe if wormtail was killed, harry would have had problems beleiving that sirius was innocent and all, since he wouldn't have seen wormtail beeing evil, thus maybe he wouldn't have wanted to try and save sirius ...

Uhoh, if Harry hadn't wanted to save Sirius (thus, go back in time), he (Harry) couldn't have saved himself which he had to do, otherwise nothing would make sense!

If Harry didn't go back in time, he never could have been there to see himself across the lake and cast the patronus charm meaning he'd be different in the future...without a soul?! How on earth does that work???? Bring in the time-travel experts!

Dumbledore would have had to make Harry go back--he'd have had to make Harry understand that he had to go back to save himself...I suppose Dumbledore had some insight to know that Harry would need to go back to protect himself? If you really don't want to go through the time-travel headache (don't blame you! ), you could say Harry reluctantly goes back and saves himself, but then refuses to use Buckbeak to save Sirius, so Buckbeak is allowed to fly away free, and Sirius is robbed of his soul by the dementor ordered by Fudge (that is, if Hermione let Harry get away with all of that! ).

That means no Sirius in book 4...no supportive Godfather, no trips to Hogsmeade (without risking getting caught, as Sirius wouldn't have been able to sign Harry's form)...what else would have changed (without getting into book 5!! ) and how complex have I made this?


~ Lizzy

[Meg Boyd]

hmmmmmmm....Wormtail is very important, yes? More of a help, than a hinderance????

[Ju-DedoH]

if they had killed wormtail, who would have killed cedric in book four ?
VD himself or another death eater ?

[AccioNiffler]

If Wormtail was killed, then almost all of book four would be obsolete!
-wormtail would not escaped to rejoin LV
-LV couldn't do much to Bertha Jorkins by himself in the state he was in
-Bertha would not reaveal that Barty Crouch Jr. was still alive, or anything about the TWT
-LV wouldn't be able to concoct (I think I spelt that wrong) that whole thing about putting Harry into the TWT
-The real Moody would have been there (maybe not though, DD wouldn't be as worried about LV and could have hired a normal teach, not a crazy ex-auror)
-No one would have entered Harry's name into the cup
- Harry would be in the bleachers for the first task
-Ron wouldn't get dragged into the lake for an hour
-Harry wouldn't have learned all the spells that he did
-Fluer and Krum could quite possiblely have beaten Cedric in the maze to win the TWT
-The TWC wouldnt be a portkey (and even if it was Wormtail wouldn't be there to kill anyone anyways!)
-Cedric would be alive

This would alsocompletely alter book 5 too, but I can't get into that of course.

I think that eventually LV would come back with the help of SOMEONE, but it just would have taken a lot longer

[Ju-DedoH]

-The TWC wouldnt be a portkey (and even if it was Wormtail wouldn't be there to kill anyone anyways!)
-Cedric would be alive

indeed LV would have took longer to come back, but a deatheater like lucius malfoy would'nt mind killing cedric instead of wormtail anyway ... (of course if LV was back at that time)

[AccioNiffler]

-The TWC wouldnt be a portkey (and even if it was Wormtail wouldn't be there to kill anyone anyways!)
-Cedric would be alive

indeed LV would have took longer to come back, but a deatheater like lucius malfoy would'nt mind killing cedric instead of wormtail anyway ... (of course if LV was back at that time)

Another death eater wouldn't mind killing him, but they wouldnt be there. because LV uses the mark on wormtail's arm to activate all the others. and even that is after wormtail cut off his hand to restore LV. So he'd probably just be floating around complaining about how none of his followers have come for him.

[Blaise Zabini]

Lol, all 'What If's?' in respect to the ending of Book 3 are by far the most complex and difficult to comprehend!

Though it's likely that LV would have found another pawn just as hungry for power and easily manipulated as Peter, and thus no harm would have come to any of his plans and schemes, I doubt that that the same applies for Harry. I mean, in regard to the actions that he took at the end of PoA, every second on that timeline was crucial, with the absence of Peter in that chain of events that eventually brought him face to face with the dementors, there's no knowing what could have happened! I mean, therer is a possibilty that the entire group (HPH, Lupin, Sirius, and Snape) could have escaped without any harm and that all would be living happily ever after to this day, but I think that the other option, something having gone awry, thus leading to something wretched, is much more plausible.

[Marcus Baker]

It would have proven Trawlnery really was a old fraud

HAHAHAHAHAHA TRUE!!!

[HuffleDuck]

Wow, this is a Big "What If". that will probably change the sotryline in book 4. the old fraud wasn't really a fraud after all

[zledm007]

wow! this "what if" had really taken off!! Lizzy you are brilliant!! that's it, no theories for now from me, too much catching up to do.

<for those of you who don't know, i've been away for two weeks and have a lot to see!!>

[Lizzy Bennet]

wow! this "what if" had really taken off!! Lizzy you are brilliant!! that's it, no theories for now from me, too much catching up to do.

<for those of you who don't know, i've been away for two weeks and have a lot to see!!>

Thanks! I just thought of something else--a few something elses, actually...if Wormtail/Pettigrew was killed by Sirius and Lupin, would Sirius have been able to prove that he was innocent or would 'murdering' Pettigrew just solidify the image the magical world had of Sirius all along? If Pettigrew was killed, there would be no need for the group to chain each other to themselves, therefore, when Lupin transformed into a werewolf, no one would be chained to him...that would change a whole bnuch of things, I would think...what do you think?? Would Harry, Hermione, and Sirius still have encountered the Dementors? Would Harry and Hermione still need to go back in time?

Also, if Wormtail/Pettigrew were killed, Harry would no longer have 'a wizard indebted to him'...he (Harry) was repulsed by this, but I wonder if later in the series Wormtail/Pettigrew being indebted to Harry won't be a huge help to Harry! Perhaps, at some point, Wormtail/Pettigrew sacrifices himself in order to save Harry, and if he (Wormtail/Pettigrew) were killed in book 3, he would not be around so save Harry.

What are your thoughts?


~ Lizzy

[Ju-DedoH]

Hey, good to have you back Z !!
oooh and lizzy, I can't help wondering when that indebt will come in handy, but I really hope it will be before the "final battle" (I coudn't stand a sort of harry on his knees in front of VD and wormtail, but wormtail jinxes vd and harry kills him off ...)
but the since the indebt hasn't come in handy yet, we can't know what would have happened if harry didn't have that on his side.
And I definately think that if Sirius killed wormtail, he would have a really hard time convincing harry that he is the "good one" (by the way did anyone know that he waas the good one before book 3 ?)