Hermione's Vulnerability (prediction)

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Hermione's Vulnerability (prediction)

Postby Athena Appleton » Monday 1 August 2005 1:53:05am

I'm a little out of form and rusty on my references, but I have heard J.K. Rowling mention several times that she's got many many people saying that they really really hope Ron isn't killed off, and that Hermione's a favorite character, but she's suprized that no one seems to find her vulnerable. The very fact that she said this makes me believe that we should be considering the possibility that dark times could lay ahead for Miss Hermione Granger.

This is how I think the final book will play out (as far as Hermione's concerned.)

Hogwarts will, in fact, remain open.

Harry's original plan of not returning to Hogwarts will change, because he'll come to realize that while it's noble for him to begin searching now, the benefits of completing his training at Hogwarts will pay off when he's faced with Voldemort for the last time. (I must mention here, Dumbledore will still be around in the final book. All headmasters/headmistresses seem to have talking paintings, and Dumbledore did promise never to be completely gone until no one at Hogwarts was faithful to him).

In the time from the beginning of the book until Harry returns to Hogwarts, Harry, Ron, Hermione and possibly Ginny, Neville and/or Luna will be working on a plan to get rid of Voldemort once and for all. Harry's faithful friends (and I include Neville and Luna because they are definately faithful and now pretty sharp). In this time, the Ron/Hermione relationship will continue, but they'll be more friends than anything at least around Harry, so we'll never know much about their private time together. :grin:

I believe Ginny and/or Hermione are in actual danger of being kidnapped or seriously injured, but not killed, by Voldemort or Death Eaters. I think that if it's Ginny, Harry will have more to do with her rescue. If it's Hermione, Ron will. Even if it's Luna, Neville will. All three of these girls are strong witches, and they're powerful enough to take out a few Death Eaters, and some very important guys care a LOT about them. Harming them makes sense from an evil mind standpoint.

After the rescue(s), the couples involved will be closer than ever, brought closer together by tragedy, but their love will be tainted by their scary, dangerous past.
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Postby Tanuki » Monday 1 August 2005 11:43:36am

The best teacher is experience. Harry is liable to learn ore on teh road than he would if he just stayed in Hogwarts and studied. Asides from that, if Harry returns to Hogwarts, Voldermort might likely take power before he can become qualified. Then what would be thepoint of having gone back. It's not like Hogwarts can protect him anymore anyway

I must mention here, Dumbledore will still be around in the final book. All headmasters/headmistresses seem to have talking paintings, and Dumbledore did promise never to be completely gone until no one at Hogwarts was faithful to him).


You really are completely delusional, aren't you?


In the time from the beginning of the book until Harry returns to Hogwarts, Harry, Ron, Hermione and possibly Ginny, Neville and/or Luna will be working on a plan to get rid of Voldemort once and for all


Because no one else is working on one, and theirs is so much more likely to succeed. This ain't their book, it's Harry's

I believe Ginny and/or Hermione are in actual danger of being kidnapped or seriously injured, but not killed, by Voldemort or Death Eaters. I think that if it's Ginny, Harry will have more to do with her rescue. If it's Hermione, Ron will. Even if it's Luna, Neville will. All three of these girls are strong witches, and they're powerful enough to take out a few Death Eaters, and some very important guys care a LOT about them. Harming them makes sense from an evil mind standpoint.


Just because they're some of the main characters doesn't mean they're survivng the last book. If all of Harry's friends were around at the end, I'd be very surprised
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Postby Athena Appleton » Tuesday 2 August 2005 1:25:47am

Tanuki wrote:The best teacher is experience. Harry is liable to learn ore on teh road than he would if he just stayed in Hogwarts and studied. Asides from that, if Harry returns to Hogwarts, Voldermort might likely take power before he can become qualified. Then what would be thepoint of having gone back. It's not like Hogwarts can protect him anymore anyway


You misunderstand me. I don't mean he needs to get qualified exactly, at least not in a graduation kind of way. I just meant being there, with the contacts he can have and with the idea of "there's safety in numbers" could be beneficial. Plus, I see no reason why Dumbledore's portrait wouldn't be there, when he quite clearly states in (I think) OotP, but it may be GoF, that all other former headmasters/headmistresses have portraits there. So Harry could still have some connection with Dumbledore.

I feel as though I should mention here that everyone has the right to post their ideas without having rude people making them sound stupid. I'd appreciate it if you could keep that in mind.
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Postby Mistress Siana » Tuesday 2 August 2005 4:30:19am

Honestly, Tanuki, does it hurt to be friendly? I assure you, your opinion would be taken much more seriously if you showed some respect for others.

Anyway, back to Hermione's weakness. I wondered when I read her very strict attidute towards the HBP's notes if her greatest strength could be her greatest weakness. She blindly accepts what she finds in an "authority approved" book. I've actually always wondered what would happen if somebody placed a wrong book in her hands, but since we've had that plot device twice now, I doubt that's going to happen. So what will happen to her in the future? I hope it's not going to be a 'hero rescues his one true love' quest.

About Hogwarts...the only reason Voldemort never attacked Hogwarts is that he feared Dumbledore. With him gone, I guess we can expect Hogwarts becoming a school for little Evil Overlords around halfway through the next year. :razz:
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Postby Phoenix in the Ashes » Tuesday 2 August 2005 7:13:49am

I have a feeling that there's only so many times she can be right. I mean, sticking to the book can only get so far. What Slughorn congratulated Harry on was mostly the flairhe showed for thinking outside the square, and actually using natural ability. Obviously it was actually Snape's ability, but still, Snape must have just had a general knack for it. So far from Hermione we've seen some of the best logic, which is great, but we haven't really seen her choose a field yet. That is, an area that she will truly excel in, and with a great mind like her's it would be disappointing and a waste if she didn't go to an area that she had natural ability in, like Snape had a flair for potions.
[I think I'll also include here, off-topic as it may be, that the spells in the HBPs book were made by Snape... so... Wouldn't it be awesome if Harry would make up his own spells.]
Continuing with the topic, I too think that Harry will not return to Hogwarts as a student. Undoubtedly he will return, but probably just for research or advice from DDs portrait or something.
[Adding again, who do you think will be Head of Gryffindor if/when Minerva becomes Headmistress? Will we find out?]
Hermione has yet to develop a natural field - and it won't be until then that we'll see her true capabilities.
Ultimately, I don't think she's that vulnerable... I think she's just as vulnerable as anyone else, if not lesser because of the OoTP knowing where HP, RW & HG are. If anything was happening to them or Hermione in particular, the OoTP wouldn't hesitate to apparate.
Bringing up another point, Hermione can now apparate. That helps, even if by just a little.
[I have a question... Cedric Diggory was 6th year when he died, right? It was the end opf the year, so would've have lessons at least. Why do you thikn he didn't apparate. Obviously he mightn't have been able to, or LV might of put an Anti-Disapparation charm thing on it... But still]
That's all.
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Postby menotyoo » Tuesday 2 August 2005 4:41:12pm

I actually think her vulnerabilities were revealed in HBP. I think it was how angry she was that she was not the best in a class, and that the person better than she is happens to be "cheating." She is so used to sitting up on her pedestal that when she is forceably removed from it, she is wreckless and jealous. (obviously I think she pretty much stepped aside willingly and accepted that Harry is better at DADA)
Also, she was absurdly jealous when it came to Ron. I think mainly what JKR was referring to was her emotional vulnerability. She can be as clever as God, but she still acts like a teenage girl - a wild one at that, when she is scorned. She is just as emotionally unstable as anyone else.
This is what I think JKR meant, just that Hermione is human, and that she is not just a walking, talking, hand-raising dictionary.
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Postby Athena Appleton » Tuesday 2 August 2005 4:44:39pm

Phoenix in the Ashes wrote:I have a feeling that there's only so many times she can be right. I mean, sticking to the book can only get so far. What Slughorn congratulated Harry on was mostly the flairhe showed for thinking outside the square, and actually using natural ability. Obviously it was actually Snape's ability, but still, Snape must have just had a general knack for it. So far from Hermione we've seen some of the best logic, which is great, but we haven't really seen her choose a field yet. That is, an area that she will truly excel in, and with a great mind like her's it would be disappointing and a waste if she didn't go to an area that she had natural ability in, like Snape had a flair for potions.
[I think I'll also include here, off-topic as it may be, that the spells in the HBPs book were made by Snape... so... Wouldn't it be awesome if Harry would make up his own spells.]


You know, the only people I can think of who have used real creativity in wizarding is Snape with the Potions book and the Weasley twins. Kinda shows that it's not always the people you think it will be who are able to use creativity. By the way, are we sure the spells in the Potions book were actually created by Snape, or were they, like, very old spells he kind of re-discovered? I'm sure it's probably clear in the book, but mine's still packed up somewhere.


Continuing with the topic, I too think that Harry will not return to Hogwarts as a student. Undoubtedly he will return, but probably just for research or advice from DDs portrait or something.


Oh, I think he'll be a student. After all, the more schooling he gets, the more he learns, and knowledge gives you power. However, I think school will be much more personal to him than "How many NEWTS will I get????" :lol: Wonder if that would still be what Hermione's priority is? Would that be a real weakness for her?

[Adding again, who do you think will be Head of Gryffindor if/when Minerva becomes Headmistress? Will we find out?]


Assuming it's someone we'd know... Hagrid? Not too likely, but I think it would fit. He was Gryffindor, right? Lupin? I'd love to see him back at Hogwarts, but once again, I don't think it's likely. Arthur or Molly (GOSH I would hate to have my parents as the head of the house at school!). No tellin.

[I have a question... Cedric Diggory was 6th year when he died, right? It was the end opf the year, so would've have lessons at least. Why do you thikn he didn't apparate. Obviously he mightn't have been able to, or LV might of put an Anti-Disapparation charm thing on it... But still]
That's all.


I think every time we hear of a new kind of cool magic, many people assume it can be used in any circumstance. When Cedric died, I always felt it was pretty clear that things happened so fast, there was no real time to react in any way. They were confused about where they were, they apparently thought it might be still part of the Tournament for at least the first minute or so. Then they saw Voldemort and Cedric died within seconds. Also, I think I'm right in saying that Harry hasn't officially been allowed to Apparate yet, seeing as he won't turn 17 until July. It's possible Cedric couldn't either for the same reason: he has a summer birthday. I don't remember for sure, though.
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Postby Dacre » Tuesday 2 August 2005 4:44:55pm

I presume Diggory didn't apperate for the same reason the death eaters wondered in from slightly further away, that LV had put a spell on the area so no-one could apparate there (just in case Harry had been taught how to)
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Postby thestral » Tuesday 2 August 2005 4:53:04pm

i just think he didn't have time. it was all very sudden, in a graveyard, than bang cedric's dead. he was completly taken by surprise, neither of them knew what was going on.

also i just wondered there do you think cedric would've disapparated and left harry there alone? i don't think he would have even if he had had enough time to apparate.
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Postby Athena Appleton » Tuesday 2 August 2005 4:56:38pm

yeah, I kind of feel the same way. by that time, they were working more as a team and I don't think either of them had it in them to leave the other behind.
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Postby Tanuki » Tuesday 2 August 2005 9:44:16pm

Mistress Siana wrote:Honestly, Tanuki, does it hurt to be friendly?


Yes, yes it does... a lot. My life is not exactly speckled with nice people asserting their opinion, why should I?

*growls*

After all, the more schooling he gets, the more he learns, and knowledge gives you power


Experience is the best teacher. Harry will learn faster from fighting death eaters... and get much better and stronger. Besides, he's out of time to be a student. Voldermort is rising in power now

I'm right in saying that Harry hasn't officially been allowed to Apparate yet


In emergencies and war, the word officially goes right out the window. And as for why he didn't. Maybe he couldn't. Not everyone is capable of apperating
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Postby Mistress Siana » Tuesday 2 August 2005 11:18:48pm

Inter arma enim silent leges, isn't it? In times of war, the laws fall silent. I expect that if they're even willing to allow Aurors to use Unforgivables, nobody is going to care whether the chosen one has an apparating license or not.

Tanuki, I definitely agree that experience will be the best teacher for Harry. The one thing about him that makes me really angry is that he is supposed to fight Voldemort and still doesn't seem to invest too much time in learning. So he wants to kill Voldemort. So he wants revenge on Snape. And why, for christ's sake, doesn't he take every free minute to learn to keep his mouth shut and his mind closed, as Snape so nicely puts it? He only tries to seriously practise nonverbal spells if the situation makes it necessary, so I hope he'll learn to fight 'on the road', otherwise the next book will end with Voldemort taking over the wizarding world.
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Postby Athena Appleton » Wednesday 3 August 2005 1:13:38am

Whether experience is the best teacher or not, Harry could gain great experience, or he could get himself and a lot of other people killed by trying to do more than he's ready for. Snape was right about this: Harry's gotton through a lot of what he's gotton through not from his own knowledge and power, but because of luck and more talented friends. If he leaves his friends behind and tries to do too much on his own, he's even more likely to acheive failure if he tries too much too soon.

In P/SS, he got past all that stuff because
1. Hagrid couldn't keep his mouth shut and told him how to get past Fluffy.
2. He's a good flyer.
3. Ron's a good chess player (and he didn't happen to be the knight.)
4. Hermione is great at logic.
5. His mother did something when he was a year old that made it impossible for Quirrell to touch him.

In Chamber of Secrets, Hermione was the one who solved the clue. He would have still been wondering about it if she hadn't thought of what was behind the attacks.

In PoA, the fact that the apparent bad guy was his godfather and was innocent was considerable luck. Had Sirius been as bad as everyone believed him to be, there'd probably only be three books in the series, because our main characters would have kicked the bucket.

In GoF, Harry probably used more of his own skill than any other book, but his skill was running and getting to the Portkey in time. The tournament was rigged, so it wasn't necessarily his own talent that got him as far as the graveyard.

In OotP, Harry used some really really bad judgement and got himself, five of his friends, and the entire Order in danger, and was indirectly responsible for Sirius's death.

In HBP, there wasn't much battle as strategy that Harry used, but all with Dumbledore's help.

Harry's still got a long way to go, and it wasn't so long ago he could very well have been killed or seriously harmed by a DE in the Ministry of Magic. If Harry spent another year at Hogwarts, working on trying to locate the final Horcruxes, using Dumbledore's portrait and any other contacts he can think of, all the while learning more that could help him in his final battle with Voldemort, that would be more beneficial.
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Postby Tanuki » Wednesday 3 August 2005 3:07:42am

Mistress Siana wrote:Inter arma enim silent leges, isn't it? In times of war, the laws fall silent. I expect that if they're even willing to allow Aurors to use Unforgivables, nobody is going to care whether the chosen one has an apparating license or not.

Tanuki, I definitely agree that experience will be the best teacher for Harry. The one thing about him that makes me really angry is that he is supposed to fight Voldemort and still doesn't seem to invest too much time in learning. So he wants to kill Voldemort. So he wants revenge on Snape. And why, for christ's sake, doesn't he take every free minute to learn to keep his mouth shut and his mind closed, as Snape so nicely puts it? He only tries to seriously practise nonverbal spells if the situation makes it necessary, so I hope he'll learn to fight 'on the road', otherwise the next book will end with Voldemort taking over the wizarding world.


Yep yep! Harry is one of those people who learn best under fire. It's hard to appreciate the severity of a situation if you aren't in that situation for them. Harry also has a mental block against learning from Snape. For some reason, he always seems to learn things slower or not at all around him. If you gave him the same subject around any other teacher he seems to pick it up fine. Think about how well he learned curses, junxes and charms during the triwizard tournament. He has the talent and the power; he just doesn't want to learn around Snape, he hates him too much
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Postby Phoenix in the Ashes » Wednesday 3 August 2005 8:00:01am

And if he can remember at least some of it from his experience, he may well have gained some actual potions skills.From copying, yes... But if he can actually remember it.
He definitely remembers all the incantations Snape put in the book, so why not the actual potions?
Then Hermione will have a reason to not be jealous anymore; Harry will actually be talented at it.
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