Is Snape Really Evil?

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Is Snape innocent?

Yes.
15
36%
No.
17
40%
Not sure....
10
24%
 
Total votes : 42

Postby Phoenix in the Ashes » Monday 21 November 2005 7:58:30am

SunsetG|rl wrote:

As for who killed DD. I doubt LV really cares as long as he is gone. He will probably be mad that Draco didn't die in the process, but on the other hand he must have expected that DD will not kill him for his intentions. And as for not completing his task, LV can punish him anyway. And since when did LV needed a reason to kill someone?


Hmm. Hang on, Voldemort knows DD wouldn't kill Draco, because he knows he would never do it. So who was he expecting to kill Draco? The other Death Eaters? That's unlikely, because one of them would have stepped in and killed DD themselves, or at least had a crack.
I think it was very clear that DD was going to end up dead that night, under whatever circumstances, so I agree.
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Postby Asphodel » Tuesday 22 November 2005 12:58:56am

LV isn't that wise. He probably thought Draco would either kill himself, or he would fight Dumbledore and die. He didn't know Dumbledore could see the good in him.
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Postby Barny The Barn » Tuesday 22 November 2005 10:35:23am

I don't think LV thought that DD would have killed Draco intentionally because LV thought DD was a fool to love and see the good in everyone including himself. I think if Draco failed then LV would have killed Draco himself as a sort of punishment to Lucius
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Postby Asphodel » Wednesday 23 November 2005 3:41:16am

LV wasn't counting on Draco to succeed. If this was a real mission, LV would have appointed his best DE's.
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Postby Phoenix in the Ashes » Wednesday 23 November 2005 4:12:16am

Alright.
Let's look at the from LV's perspective:

I want to get back at Lucius for failing me. What do I do?
I send the boy to his death... But wait... I know Dumbledore will not kill him, the peace-loving fool. He believes in second chances. He does not kill in cold blood.
But Draco will not succeed.
How can I punish Lucius, if Draco will not be killed?
If he does not succeed, I must kill him myself.


I believe this to be LV's thinking. We have all heard him mock DD's peaceful ways. He knows he will not kill him. So, thinking that DD will not die, he plans to kill Draco himself for not succeeding.
Only, behing his back, Narcissa and Snape have made an Unbreakable Vow, another factor that Voldemort did not count on.

Voldemort was expecting Dumbledore to live, but now he has died.
Voldemort will be wondering why Snape blew his cover...
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Postby Asphodel » Wednesday 23 November 2005 6:23:32am

LV probably counted on Draco killing himself. He knew Draco would not want to go back to LV and tell him that he failed, he knew LV would kill him. LV wouldn't need a reason for killing anybody. He could just do it. But he wants his parents to see that he (supposedly) had a chance and killed himself, which would hurt more.
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Postby Phoenix in the Ashes » Wednesday 23 November 2005 6:48:30am

In my opinion, and I bet a few others' too...

Draco is too much of a wimp to commit suicide. We've seen nothing to prove that he's any different.
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Postby Asphodel » Wednesday 23 November 2005 6:49:15am

Well he almost did, remember what Moaning Myrtle told us?
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Postby SunsetG|rl » Wednesday 23 November 2005 7:55:09am

I want to get back at Lucius for failing me. What do I do?
I send the boy to his death... But wait... I know Dumbledore will not kill him, the peace-loving fool. He believes in second chances. He does not kill in cold blood.
But Draco will not succeed.
How can I punish Lucius, if Draco will not be killed?
If he does not succeed, I must kill him myself.


But since did Lord Voldemort needed a reason to kill someone? Or if he goes by this ideea that you can punish someone if he fails, he could have killed Draco the moment Lucius failed. To punish him. Or has Lv gone soft?
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Postby Phoenix in the Ashes » Wednesday 23 November 2005 8:37:18am

Have you ever heard of killing two birds with one stone?

Draco was dead either way, you may as well send him out to do something useful :-? .
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Postby SunsetG|rl » Wednesday 23 November 2005 3:52:42pm

Yeah but I doubt LV actually expected that Draco will really kill Dumbledore or that Dumbledore would really kill Draco.
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Postby Phoenix in the Ashes » Thursday 24 November 2005 5:04:17am

Of course, but do you honestly think that LV would not take Narcissa into account. He knew she would have planned something, I'm sure.
And there Snape comes into play...
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Postby Asphodel » Friday 25 November 2005 3:59:48am

Think about it, from LV's perspective:

I am mad at the Malfoys. I want to get back at the Malfoys. I don't just want to kill their son, I want to torture them. I know Narcissa loves her son. If I send Draco out to do an impossible task she would be tortured by the thought of Draco dying. And when Draco does die, Narcissa will be to shattered to live.
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Postby Phoenix in the Ashes » Friday 25 November 2005 5:46:48am

If you remember, he underestimated one other so called "weak" person in his lifetime. I don't think he'd dare risk it with a fully grown woman.
I agree with you, up until Narcissa being shattered, or more accurately, Voldemort thinking Narcissa will be shattered.

I'll say again. I think Voldemort knew Narcissa would not take it lying down.
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Postby Barny The Barn » Friday 25 November 2005 3:20:16pm

Phoenix in the Ashes wrote:Alright.
Let's look at the from LV's perspective:

I want to get back at Lucius for failing me. What do I do?
I send the boy to his death... But wait... I know Dumbledore will not kill him, the peace-loving fool. He believes in second chances. He does not kill in cold blood.
But Draco will not succeed.
How can I punish Lucius, if Draco will not be killed?
If he does not succeed, I must kill him myself.


I believe this to be LV's thinking. We have all heard him mock DD's peaceful ways. He knows he will not kill him. So, thinking that DD will not die, he plans to kill Draco himself for not succeeding.
Only, behing his back, Narcissa and Snape have made an Unbreakable Vow, another factor that Voldemort did not count on.

Voldemort was expecting Dumbledore to live, but now he has died.
Voldemort will be wondering why Snape blew his cover...


I agree with this up to the bit that LV was expecting DD to live. I think he knew Draco would fail and would have seconded another DE or maybe Greyback to do it instead. For all we know the task of killing DD might have been appointed to Snape by LV if Draco Failed that is. I also think that Snape wanted LV to know about the unbreakable vow - thru Wormtail perhaps
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