Just finished - am in shock

[pandora315]

Right, well I'm not sure if anyone has said this yet because my brain is not functioning enough to read everyones posts- I just need to talk about DD death in the way that anyone who has just recieved a great shock needs to. I was thinking that maybe Snape hadn't always been on either side but had helped each just enough to see who would win in the end. WHen he saw DD cornered he thought it was all over so he killed him. Of course Snape was also head of S. house and doesn't the portrait at Sirius house say in Ootp that Slyhterins will always chose to save their own skin? If Snape hadn't killed DD he himslef would have died because of the bond he made with Dracos mother. One thing I have to say that dissapointed me terribly was the way DD died. PLeading with Snape??? Since when do Gryffindors plead or their lives?

Also, any clues on what DD saw while he was drinking that potion?

[Dacre]

Thign is, if DD knew Snape had made the unbreakable vow, and that Malfoy's mission was to kill him, surely he realised that the only was Snape could survive was if he died?
Although, I have yet to see any good Snape has done against death eaters tbh, but DD trusted him! aarggh!
I mainly have two q's that won't be answered until the next book, is DD really dead and is Snape really evil? I reckon the two are ridiculously closerly linked. But if DD faked his own death, then a) Snape will be totally trusted by the DeathEaters, and DD has a real surprise for a final battle ie. himself.

[Dacre]

Don't think DD was pleading for his life as much as pleading for Snape to stay on the side off good, otherwise he's be so disappointed (probably feared that more than death) - OR maybe to go through with a pre-planned plan?
I reckon that drinking that potion was similar to a dementor attack in the things you see (possibly distilled Dementor Juice or something) ie. the worst things you could imagine.

[Mistress Siana]

Snape's bond with Narcissa bothers me...why did he do it in the first place? It was not on Voldemort's order, it was much rather behind Voldemort's back, it did nothing to stop Bellatrix from mistrusting him, and I think Narcissa would have trusted him anyway. In short: Snape had not much to gain, but very much to lose. It's not very Slytherin, is it?

Another thing I wonder about is the argument between Snape and DD Hagrid witnessed. What was it DD took for granted that Snape didn't want to do anymore? If he'd planned to kill him all along the way, wouldn't it have been wiser to just shut up and nod to whatever DD said, knowing his time would come? And why did Snape spare Flitwick and Hermione? He wouldn't have needed to.

[pandora315]

or why did Snape fix up DD so he only ended up with a ruined hand instead of something much more serious? Theres a million things Snape has done that could be wondered at. The only thing I can come up with is he was hedging his bets to get a better idea at the outcome. As for leaving Harry for the Dark Lord and not killing him there- why didn't he take him to the Dark Lord? Drag him along? Also since Snape is so good at legillimens and can pull almost anything from Harry's head (and Voldemort would know this) why doesn't he try to see if theres anything about the prophesy in there to give to Voldemort?

The snape thing is fishy. However I re-read the part where DD dies three times last night to see if I missed anything and its very clear that Snape shows hatred on his face when he looks at DD.

There were many similarities pointed out between Voldemort and Snape which makes it even more confusing as they could be planted to make us think one way whe the truth could be in another direction.

[pandora315]

Oh, one more thing. What are everyones thoughts on the reason DD trusted Snape? I know Harry says that its because Snape realised he'd had James and Lily killed, but DD never says this- its Harry's assumption. Do we all agree? I dont think so somehow....or of it is its a very lame reason. DD even said in the last book that he underestimates old grudges (about Snape when he is talking to harry about Occlumency lessons at the end of the book). DD doesn't seem the type to make the same mistakes twice. Not that kind anyway- I mean he does admit to making a mistake about filling Harry in on hte whole picture because of his love for him, but anyway. Just like to know what everyone else thinks.

[thestral]

another thing that i wondered was, james saved snape from lupin, thus creating a wizard's debt. but then snape gives voldemort the info about the prophecy that then led to james death. so is this not directly breaking the wizard's debt surely to have some sort of repercussion?

then add on top of than harry being the son of james, because snape broke his wizard's debt would that not then be passed on in some way to harry? so snape would be in debt to harry? but then he took the unbreakable vow to kill dumbledore. at the time when i was reading it, i thought 'aha, he's being smart because his wizard's debt will prevent him from doing anything, thus being a loophole in the unbreakable vow' but i thought they were trying to kill harry, not DD. so now i'm confused in a mire of wizard's debts and unbreakable vows.

basically, the bottom line is, is snape in debt to harry because of what happened to james? did the debt pass on in the blood? does voldemort have 2 DE's with wizard's debts to harry?

[Imelyen]

If Snape owed a debt to Harry, it was repayed in his first year when Quirrel tried to kill Harry during the quidditch match, and Snape said the counter-jynx...So you can strike Snape from you list of DE's with a debt to Harry There is, on the other hand, still Peter.

In our experience with snape, it's more customary for him to GLOAT when he wins, when he accomplishes something, or hell, even when he makes fun of some one (usually harry) in a rather clever way. And there is no doubt at all the he is the HBP as he said he was, and that was the only way he would have even known the name to begin with. What I dont get is, WHY does Voldemort want to kill Harry for himself? is it not enough to just have the kid dead. Why not just say "Hey, if you see him, feel free to kill him.".

The thing that leaves absolutely no room in my mind for any trace of doubt about snape being a good guy, is his reaction when Harry called him a coward. The only way you could descibe Snape after the scene with Dumbledore is cowardly...unless he was acting on Dumbledore's orders, which is why he had the look of hatred and revulsion on his face before he did it. And which is why he was so angry at being called a coward.

[thestral]

the one thing a person doesn't like being called is the truth of what they are. if you've tried your whole life to tell yourself you're not a coward. sometimes at the end of the day you are one. and that's why snape got so angry. he's knows he is a coward. and the way he killed DD, the man who trusted him beyond doubt was cowardly.

and yeah i considered the whole broom counter-jinx thing, but i thought that wasn't enough to fulfil the debt. duh me.

[Scarleteyes]

I am new but I had to discuss this with someone.
Is there going to be a 7th book becasue each book is based off a year at hogwarts and he said that he isn't going back. The way she ended the book seems to me like the way they would end a series. Like we have to figure out for ourselves what is going to happen. I wonder if she is getting tired of writing these books. Maybe everyone was putting so much pressure on her to write she decided to end it early. What do you guys think?

I think Dumbledore is dead because they locked him in that tomb.

[thestral]

there will definitly be a 7th book, beyond a shadow of a doubt, she has the last chapter written. and there just will be. as sure as the sun will rise. now we just have to wait for it

[Scarleteyes]

Awesome because I was really worried. That means that the 7th book is the last that will have to explain everything that has happened. What I want to find out is if Snape gets killed by Harry or if it ends up that he was following orders from Dumbledore the entire time. I am thinking that Snape is not as evil as everyone is thinking him to be.

[Ginny-DA]

I'm wondering whether Snapes look of anger and disgust was at HAVING to kill Dumbledore when he didn't want to do it. I mean if someone had given you a second chance (like DD did) and presuming that Snape is a Octupal agent (or however many we have decided upon now) and is really on DD's side, wouldn't you feel anger at having to kill a man that had trusted you?

I'm not sure if debts would get passed down a blood line. I am fairly sure that they are supposed to die once the person dies (or at least that's how it works in every other culture that has them). I maybe wrong though.

[Mistress Siana]

The 'duel' between Harry and Snape frightened me. Harry was not able to throw a single, however little curse at Snape that Snape wasn't able to deflect with a bored flick. That boy is supposed to find several more sealed parts of Voldemort's soul, which seems to be a task even DD could not accomplish alone or without getting seriously hurt. After that, Harry will have to kill the (now) greatest wizard alive. How on earth is he going to do that when he cannot as much as give Snape a scratch?

[felix felicis]

didn't DD tell harry about snape's debt to james after snape had already saved harry from the broom? he made it sound like snape was still in debt. but if snape wasn't still in debt, why would he save harry?

i still think both snape and wormtail owe harry. maybe not snape. i don't know. my brain is a fried egg.

what is JKR going to label book 7 as? if hogwarts is closed it cannot be labeled as the seventh year at hogwarts (which is what every single book has been labeled as: a certain year at hogwarts). therefore i think hogwarts will not be closed. but obviously harry is not going back for his N.E.W.T. year. and Ron and Herm say they are going with harry. poor hermione's studies . so what on earth are they going to do??

ugh.