Just finished - am in shock

[Scarlet Lioness]

YAY!!!! H/G finally...

I cried when DD died and was secretly hoping that DD would suddenly come back to life...but by the last two pages knew that my happy ending wuld not happen and burst into tears...*sniff sniff*

[Ginny-DA]

Hi, new to this site, but had to find somewhere i could discuss HBP since my mum and sister haven't finished reading the book yet.

Couldn't believe that DD died. I kept expecting something supernatural to happen, like when they got to the bottom of the tower the body wasn't there. I think DD knew he was going to die though, otherwise why would he had been insisting so strongly through the book that Harry tell Ron and Hermione what was going on. He knows that Harry can't do it alone, or at least shouldn't. I mean he kept talking about Voldermort never having any close friends (i know this was also to prove the point that love was what Harry had that could defeat Voldermort), could this have been a clue to Harry as to what to do next and the fact that Voldermort thought that his locket would be safe cos no man could do it alone. He will be expecting one person to be seeking him out to kill him, not a group of them. Especially as the prophecy predicts a chosen ONE, it maybe Harry that has to finally duel with Voldermort alone, but he will only get there, as he has done so far, through the help of his friends.

I never guessed Snape was the HBP. I just couldn't see it coming. I thought it would be a new character that JKR was bringing into the mix. As already said the book may have been 50 years old, but it could've been second hand when Snape brought it. I mean JKR has never intermated that Snape (or his family) have money. He could've come from a poor family and had to buy a second hand book. I do think there is something more to this Snape business though. JKR could be doing a double bluff. Maybe he was acting on DD's orders to act on Voldermorts orders. DD did admit he was infalable and did make mistakes, but to be SO sure that Snape could be trusted he must've known something about Snape that nobody else knows (yet). He knew so much about other things (eg all he told Harry about Voldermort) that he never told another living soul (until Harry).

I've been thinking about R.A.B. and as yet i've come up with no satisdactory idea as to what's going on. I think that will flumox me for a while.

[thestral]

snape. is. bad.

i don't think it could be much clearer. sometimes a cigar, is just a cigar. i think we're being like hagrid at the end here, "what musta happened was dumbledore musta told snape ter go with the death eaters". we should start slistening to harry. snape is not good. i think this has now been proved beyond doubt. i think DD's pleading was to do with the fact that he couldn't believe he was wrong about his precious severus. i think we're looking for hidden depths that aren't there.

Yes, he makes mistakes but it is hard for me to see him making a mistake of such importance.

exactly dear watkins, if you remember DD said to harry that because he was smarter that more men, his mistakes tended to be significantly larger. that for me had a very ominous feelings and i thought at that point 'snape, snape, don't trust snape'. i think harry's right on this one. snape has gone bad and was always bad, pure and simple.

[Ginny-DA]

if you remember DD said to harry that because he was smarter that more men, his mistakes tended to be significantly larger.

Yes the mistakes are larger, but he said he always had a feeling about Riddle, that there was something about him that he didn't trust. If there is one thing that DD is, it is a good judge of character. I know that he always tries to see the good in people (much like Hagrid), but he does tend to know who is bad and who is good. There is something there that DD trusts in Snape and he must've had a good reason for it. DD wouldn't be so insisted that he trusted Snape if he didn't have hard proof. Otherwise he would've distrusted Snape and kept an eye on him (as he did with Riddle).

[thestral]

i don't know i'm confused!!!!! i'm torn between my inclination to trust whatever DD says, normally anything he says is the truth. he's like the voice of JKR, so it's hard to disbelieve DD. but the the voice of reason goes. duh he just killed DD in front of DE's he is a death eater!!!!

maybe it's symbolic. like a moral lesson. those who we think are infalliable aren't actually. like a lesson for harry or something. one person isn't always right and that's something harry has to learn. but DD died in a very human way. and characteristic of himself. he died trusting others and making a mistake which i think sums up DD well. he was agreat wizard but sometimes people forget that he's human and does make mistakes. which i s why we have to re-train ourselves to not miss the obvious truth, snape is not a fluffy friendly bunny rabbit. well the lack of tail probably denoted that earlier....

[Ginny-DA]

Maybe JKR is is stating the obvious at the moment. There have been so many twists and turns in all the books that maybe for once she is stating the obvious and we are missing it because we are used to there being an extra twist in there somewhere, so you maybe right. And yes DD is only human at the end of the day (even if he is a very powerful human with wizard powers).

But it is also possible that there is more to this story and JKR is taking us on another twist again. Is it not possible that Snape is a double agent and he is on DD's side. I think DD knew that it was time for him to die for the story to progress. Harry would never think of leaving Hogwarts whilst DD was headmaster, which means he would not have been able to progress to the next stage of his journey. Voldermort is getting stronger each day, if Harry had to wait another year to seek out Voldermort then it could be too late. (Although we all know that the next book is the final one). If Snape was a double agent it would make sense that we would need to kill DD in front of DE's to make sure that they actually believed that Snape was a DE too.

If DD didn't think it was time for him to die why did he paralyse Harry so that he could watch it all. He would've had Harry fighting at his side. He took him on a mission to find a Horcruxe, which was dangerous, he has time and time again allowed Harry to fight with more powerful witches and wizards, he knew that Harry was capable of fighting so it doesn't make sense.

[thestral]

but with all these twists, does that not make snape like a quadruple agent?!? i don't know if there are going to be many more big twists because this is nearing the end of the books and JKR doesn't to unravel everything in the last one, well obviously the big things. but i'm inclined to think that it's too near the end for this to be another twist in the snape saga. and that JKR was just unravelled the truth about snape rather than twisting it further. but once again i don't know!!!!it's too confusing i can't even see straight any more.

[Ginny-DA]

lie down in a darkened room for an hour!

I'm starting to get myself confussed now as well.

I just think that there is a little more to this than Snape being evil as she has hinted and disproved this from the very first book. I guess we will just have to wait and find out though.

[Dacre]

There's enough time for one final massive twist I reckon, tho. I had a horrible feeling for a while it was going to be that Dumbledore was not all he appeared to be. I still am not totally convinced he's dead - but I think thats an emotional response rather than a logical one.
He could have taken Malfoy without a wand surely, or flated harry into a position to take Malfoy - he must have realised that other enemies would appear near him soon.
Was the pleading to Snape to stop what was happening (even tho. this would cause Snape's death) or is Snape really a triple agent? There MUST be something else we don't have an inkling of yet why DD trusts Snape, or he has gone bad - the deaths of Lily and James can't hav been enough fo DD to trust on this - though I think it's likely Snape fancied her something rotter (also good at potions etc)

[thestral]

i think DD is definitly dead. he's always talked about death in a positive, not shrinking from the truth sort of way. i book 1 he said, "to the well organised mind, death is but the next great adventure" DD didn't fear death, so i think he is dead, no funny buisness going on here. and he stated clearly in booke 4 that no-one can come back from the dead. so i don't think he'll contradict his own words.

[Ginny-DA]

I think it is an emotional reaction. I kept looking for hints that he wasn't really dead. But as i have already stated i think that JKR needed to kill DD as Harry was too attached to him and it would've impeded the progress in the next book.

I also think that Snape had "a thing" for Lily. He had far too much hate for James for it to be purely things that had happened between them.


I believe an incident has happened (not sure what at the moment) that made DD trust Snape so much. It can't have just been words that were exchanged that made DD believe that Snape had given up his evil ways.

[thestral]

yeah i'm convinced snape was in love with lily too. but last time i said that i was laughed out of the thread, like i was crazy!!!!! hmmm maybe i'll find that thread again....

there's a little part of me saying, maybe there was an incident, DD must have really trusted snape and maybe it was a double bluff.... but no!!! that's my emotional reaction. snape is bad. i think he's shown his true colours.

although i do think that it was an incident that made DD trust snape, not just words. but i think snape is bad, because one of DD's flaws was that he was too trusting and always saw only the best and not the bad in people and other times it worked out okay. but with snape it backfired, cos he just didn't see the truth, the bad side of snape.

[Ginny-DA]

always saw only the best and not the bad in people

Not always! Riddle springs to mind. He saw the bad in him.

[thestral]

yes that's true. which is why i''m CONFUSED!!!!!!!!!!

definitly going to lie down in a dark room now. too much in my brain. i'm going in circles. snape is bad, wait maybe he isn't, NO HE IS BAD, but if DD trusted him, surely there must be something, no stop, snape. bad. brain. melting.....

[Ginny-DA]

That is what you get from reading books from such a good author.

Just don't send yourself mental!