Spinner's End septology clue

[Athena Appleton]

Okay, I know there are a lot of you out there holding on to the thin chance that Snape is good, but I think the very name of where he lives is a clue that he's not.

It's clear that most of the names Rowling uses of both places and people are a clue. Voldemort is derived from the French "vol de mort" meaning "escape from death". Privet Drive, when looked at from a French standpoint, hints at something that is not what it seems.

When I read where Snape lives, it occurred to me: this could be one of those circumstances. "Spinner" meaning someone who spins a tale or a web of lies, and "end" naturally meaning the end. So the place where Snape lives, and the title of the chapter, means "the end of the lies." This is really the first time we see Snape's true colors.

[Claire]

And why does he have to be spinning a tale to Dumbledore? Why couldnt it be to Voldemort? And more specifically in that chapter, to Bellatrix and Narcissa?

[Lelie]

wow, athena. i saw that a totally different way. i associated spinner's end with a spider spinning a web. i thought it was a metaphor for him catching bellatrix and narcissa in his web. hm.

[Snow_Crystal]

Very interesting. I'm more and more convinced that Snape will turn out to be good. Sorry Athena! But yeah why can't he be spinning lies to LV. I'm sure he must be

What did DD have on him? I wonder if he was related to Snape's mother? Sorry that's a bit way out isn't it...

[annachie]

I always wondered if Prof Snape had something to do with Snape, Suffolk. Where they invented a type of fertilizer many many years ago.

[Enchanter]

If the chapter's title meant the Snape was no longer telling lies to voldemort then Snape would not have told Bellatrix and Narcissa what he told them.


I remain convinced that Snape is evil

[Athena Appleton]

And why does he have to be spinning a tale to Dumbledore? Why couldnt it be to Voldemort? And more specifically in that chapter, to Bellatrix and Narcissa?

It doesn't mean that entirely. If you don't believe my theory in the least that "Spinners End" refers to the end of lies, then it doesn't mean he's spinning a tale to Dumbledore at all. Because if you don't believe "Spinners End" means that, then everything that came out of his mouth in Chapter 2 was a lie.

Query: how do all these folks who are so convinced Snape's good even after everything that happened in HPB explain how he was able to take the Unbreakable Vow? And how does actually killing Dumbledore fit into the idea of Snape being good?

[Phinea Rogue]

"Spinner's End" - I see the title a bit differently (at the moment, I don't see Snape as evil, neither as good, but somewhere in between) and Snape as somehow who was spinning his webs (and lies) for his own good and possibly got caught in them himself.

[Tanuki]

Sort of like me theory of Snape being on his own side. He's planning to kill both sides

[Dutchess42]

Query: how do all these folks who are so convinced Snape's good even after everything that happened in HPB explain how he was able to take the Unbreakable Vow? And how does actually killing Dumbledore fit into the idea of Snape being good?

I don't know that I'm "so convinced" but I will attempt an answer:

He began the vow straight on, but when they got to the bit about actually finishing the task if Draco couldn't Snape hesitated. He was unprepared for that part. But by that time he could not have refused. In for a penny, in for a pound.

He did not want to kill Dumbledore. That was probably what they were talking about near the forest when Snape said he wanted to quit. Dumbledore must have persuaded him that keeping the vow was the only reasonable course of action.

Remember also - a death eater would not have let Luna and Hermione live. He had every chance to kill them when he found them outside his door but chose instead to knock out the professor and ask them to attend to him. He did that to keep the girls out of harms way.

He also did no harm to any of the students nor to any of the Order of the Phoenix as he made his way up the tower.

That doesn't sound like a death eater to me.

[Athena Appleton]

Query: how do all these folks who are so convinced Snape's good even after everything that happened in HPB explain how he was able to take the Unbreakable Vow? And how does actually killing Dumbledore fit into the idea of Snape being good?

I don't know that I'm "so convinced" but I will attempt an answer:

He began the vow straight on, but when they got to the bit about actually finishing the task if Draco couldn't Snape hesitated. He was unprepared for that part. But by that time he could not have refused. In for a penny, in for a pound.

Why couldn't he have refused? Narcissa started the conversation by saying that Voldemort had told her to speak of the plan to no one. He could have had her in a corner: if she went to Voldemort with suspicions that Snape was unfaithful to him, based on the fact that he refused to commit to an Unbreakable Vow to follow through in case Draco couldn't, she'd be telling on herself for having gone to him in the first place. If he was worried about Bellatrix, he could have gone to Voldemort and said "The asked me, but I felt I should talk to you first. If I kill Dumbledore, all well and good, but if I die trying, Dumbledore would still be alive and you'd have lost your spy." Since Voldemort's not very happy with Bellatrix and the Malfoys right now, he wouldn't side with them.

He did not want to kill Dumbledore. That was probably what they were talking about near the forest when Snape said he wanted to quit. Dumbledore must have persuaded him that keeping the vow was the only reasonable course of action.

What if the argument was a kind of confrontation that Dumbledore realized something was going on with Snape? That regardless of what he told others, he knew things just weren't right. What if Snape knew something about what the private lessons Dumbledore was giving Harry was about and was trying to prevent them? What if Dumbledore was trying to pursuade Snape to hand over a memory and Snape refused? What if Snape found out the DADA job was really (and not just talked about) cursed, and was angry that Dumbledore had given it to him without explaining that that would be his last year at Hogwarts? Dumbledore didn't take kindly to Harry showing distrust of Snape: perhaps Snape showed distrust of someone else (Dumbledore's gotton mad at him about that before, the night Sirius got in the castle and Snape suggests Lupin had something to do with it).

Remember also - a death eater would not have let Luna and Hermione live. He had every chance to kill them when he found them outside his door but chose instead to knock out the professor and ask them to attend to him. He did that to keep the girls out of harms way.

I'll have to reread that (I'm working my way through the book again.)

He also did no harm to any of the students nor to any of the Order of the Phoenix as he made his way up the tower.

HE KILLED THEIR LEADER!!!!! He murdered the one person who was actually able to protect anyone (Harry included). With a cold stare, he killed the one person Voldemort was afraid of. That's not a nice thing to do.

When he was making his way up the tower, he knew his mission was to kill Dumbledore if Draco couldn't. His loyalties were to Draco, so he avoided getting into any of the mess in the tower because he had to make sure Dumbledore died without killing Draco.

[Tanuki]

Remember also - a death eater would not have let Luna and Hermione live. He had every chance to kill them when he found them outside his door but chose instead to knock out the professor and ask them to attend to him. He did that to keep the girls out of harms way.

One of the most common sense things about getting out of a fort safely is not to kill people when you're in the center of it. The more people who know what you're doing, the more likely it is that you'll have to fight your way out. Snape was saving his own hide

[Dutchess42]

Remember also - a death eater would not have let Luna and Hermione live. He had every chance to kill them when he found them outside his door but chose instead to knock out the professor and ask them to attend to him. He did that to keep the girls out of harms way.

One of the most common sense things about getting out of a fort safely is not to kill people when you're in the center of it. The more people who know what you're doing, the more likely it is that you'll have to fight your way out. Snape was saving his own hide

But there were only the four of them there and he was not really in the "center" of things - he's below. Had he killed the professor, then sent Hermione and Luna into the room and killed them as well no one would have known.

[Phinea Rogue]

Sort of like me theory of Snape being on his own side. He's planning to kill both sides

Not exactly planning to kill (Why would he? To become the next dark lord or something like that?), but gaining something from both sides. It could have happened that at one point he was suddenly unable to continue doing this, playing both sides, that he got caught in his own "webs"...

Hm... I don't really know, I'm not persuaded, whether to consider him evil or good. He's too evil to be good and too good to be evil?

[Dutchess42]

Why couldn't he have refused? Narcissa started the conversation by saying that Voldemort had told her to speak of the plan to no one. He could have had her in a corner: if she went to Voldemort with suspicions that Snape was unfaithful to him, based on the fact that he refused to commit to an Unbreakable Vow to follow through in case Draco couldn't, she'd be telling on herself for having gone to him in the first place. If he was worried about Bellatrix, he could have gone to Voldemort and said "The asked me, but I felt I should talk to you first. If I kill Dumbledore, all well and good, but if I die trying, Dumbledore would still be alive and you'd have lost your spy." Since Voldemort's not very happy with Bellatrix and the Malfoys right now, he wouldn't side with them.

That assumes he knew what the task was. In my scenario he did not. I don't think it would have occurred to him that V would set a mere boy against Dumbledore. Had he known, then he would not have agreed as you say.