Sirius's Death in Question

[Errol]

Hello everyone, I don't know if this topic or something like it has already been posted, but I was reading this theory on a website and I have forgotten the website. Here is the theory...

Bellatrix was not actually the one that hit Sirius with the spell. It could of been Lupin (cuz of Sirius's shocked face). That's a pretty good theory though. I mean, JKR doesn't exactly tell us who was the one that hit Sirius. Sirius is a very experienced fighter and he wouldn't take his eyes off of Bellatrix.

Ok everyone tell me what you think... Sorry mods if there is already a theory like this...

Please tear this theory to shreds...

[Broccoli]

wow, that sounds interesting! Though I don't think that Lupin could have done it!

But indeed, it could have been somebody else, not Belatrix! Did Sirius have a shocked face? I have to check my book!

[Samodiva]

Yes, he had! That's an interesting theory. It might be Dumbledoor. One of the rumors says that he is actually one of the bad guys. Who knows?

[Nightcrawler]

That's a very interesting theory. Looks like its time to pull out OOTP and review the scene...


Also, just thought I'd mention that JKR has pretty much stated that Dumbledore and Hermione are the characters Rowling uses to convey information to the reader, so I don't think that they are evil.

I may post again after I've had a look at Book 5.

[choki]

maybe Sirius had that shocked face because he realised he was going to fall into the veil - meaning a certain death...and Sirius wasn't planning to die at all.

[Errol]

But how did he know the veil was right behind him? He didn't turn around to see it. People also say that its Lupin that actually hit Sirius with the spell because they think Voldemort could of bribed him and told him he could make him so he is not a werewolf anymore. I think it would be a very intresting twist to the story...

[Phaerie]

I have to agree that it is unlikely that a wizard of sirius's callibre (taking into account that he would i suppose be somewhat out of practice) would have made such a silly mistake when fighting Bellatrix. As i recall the most likely spell (the one hat made him fall through the veil) was a stunning spell (it was red and we know stunners are red, however i'm sure other spells are red too- but this is the only one we know). How hard would it have been to have blocked it. After all hes expecting Bella to be firing spells at him.

The only reason he wouldn't of blocked it is if it had come when he was not expecting it- ie from somewhere/someone else apart from bellatrix. Whether or not this someone was Lupin is impossible to prove- we don't know the direction the spell came from. Though lupin was very sure that Sirius was dead.

As for the shocked look i think that it was mainly because he had been hit- and if it was a stunner her realised he was about to be hit before it hit him (as he would be stunned and hence unable to move once it hit him).

I giess the main question to ask is why did Lupin betray sirius if it was indeed him who killed Sirius. After all if he had joined Voldemort wouldn't it make much more sense just to kill Harry or some of his friends. Albeitly his hand in killing sirius is undoubtably more subtle thn if he had tried to kill harry. If lupin did kill sirius i think there is probably a much subtler reason than joining voldemort

[Errol]

Like, if Voldemort made him a deal and said, if you do these things for me, then I will change you back to the way you were, before you got bitten, when you were fully human. Maybe Lupin wanted it so bad that he gave in. Lupin could of also been trying to help out and been trying to hit Belatrix but I doubt Lupin would of missed, he is to good of a wizard.

[Nightcrawler]

Well, I've been to lazy to reread book 5 like I said I would, but here's my take on it.

I don't think that Lupin really mind's being a werewolf. Remember his teen wolf days were some of the best days he's ever had. And remember how Lupin comforted the werewolf guy at the hospital? He was telling him about how it wasn't all that bad, and that it is quite easy for a werewolf to live a completly normal life. I mean, it's only once a month that he becomes a monster, and with Snape's wolfbane, he's not even a monster then really.

And werewolves are just so bada$$ . I think the only real downside to being a werewolf would be the preconceptions and judgements that society in general would make about you. I think that Lupin's ethical character is too high to really care about what a bunch of small-minded, bigoted, idiots might think about him, much less kill his best friend.

I believe that if Sirius was betrayed, Moody may be a posibility. We don't really know anything about the guy and pehaps the evil "Moody Imposter" was in book 4 to foreshaddow Moody's potential evilness. As for someone who could counter Sirius's skill, Moody was a powerful Aura, and even so he got hurt pretty badly in return. (I believe that he was knocked to the floor and his eyeball rolled around for a bit.) So even if Moody did betray Sirius, at least Sirius got a powerful blow in.

[Mistress Siana]

What about Bellatrix? I don't have the book with me at the moment, but I remember Harry accusing her directly of having killed Sirius. If the spell hadn't come from her but from Lupin or Dumbledore, she definitely would have noticed. And I bet she would have told Harry to hurt him, just as she's told him what's necessary to use a forbidden spell.

[Errol]

Thats another reason why I think it was someone who Harry thought was on his side because then Voldemort might of told all of the Death Eaters to not say anything, so lets just say...when Lupin killed Sirius he was also proving his faithfullness to Voldemort.

[choki]

When I read the chapter in Book 5, I always thought Sirius was being irrational and rash. If my memory did not fail me, Sirius chased after Bellatrix. And when Bellatrix climbed (?) onto the arch, he followed blindly, hot in pursuit. He did not realised that he was standing near that veil at all.

Just my interpretation though...but if someone from the Order caused Sirius's death...it will be such a wicked idea
Harry who strongly believed Bellatrix murdered Sirius will be utterly shocked when Bellatrix confessed she wasn't the one and she definitely won't reveal the spy even when death looked straight into her eyes

How wicked

[Evil Wizard Petting Zoo]

I don't really buy into this theory, but if it wasnt Bellatrix that made Sirius fall through the veil, I don't think it was betrayal. Remember, Voldemort and the other DEs are all still sneeking around. One of them could have easily hit one of the OoTP members with the Imperious Curse.

[Errol]

What?

I am trying to say that Lupin might have been on Voldemort's side for quite a while now, so he needed to prove that he was dedicated to them, and what a good way to prove it, kill his own friend.

Does anyone remember in one of the books, when someone said..."At first we suspected Lupin of betraying your parents"...well another question, Why would they suspect Lupin?"

I think it was in the 3rd book, when Sirius, Lupin, the trio, and a knocked out Snape where underneath the Whomping Willow...

[Just Mom]

Okay. Compared to you guys I'm old and you are very better versed in the fine details of the OotP than I am and I haven't posted in awhile so I need to time to figure out what's going on with the board.

BUT...

Because I do have some years (the same amount as JKR) under my belt, I can see some things through her eyes. As often as she has said-including just recently- that Lupin is her favorite character, the idea that Lupin is working for LV just doesn't go anywhere. A really good question to ask is why is Lupin her favorite? Most authors have a character that is more closely akin to "themselves" than other characters which tend to be fragments of the author's traits. What is it about him that is so special to her? Knowing that he's so special probably means there is more to him than we've seen so far and most of what we've seen is exceptionally humble, steady and good and on the downtrodden but still a survivor side.

I think the look of shock probably came from Sirius being hit, not so much from the idea of being hit by a friend or betrayed by a friend. Being "rash" as another poster pointed out, Sirius probably wasn't expecting to die anytime soon.