marauder's manufacturers

[Athena Appleton]

don't you love it when you read a hint, later find out what it means, stop thinking about the hint, and later on realize that there's so much more to it than you originally thought?

I was just rereading the scene in PoA when Snape catches Harry with the Zonko's jokes and the Marauder's Map and tries to get it to work... a couple of things became clear to me.

1. There's been a lot of talk about if/how Sirius will return. When Snape tries to get the Marauder's Map to reveal it's secret, "Mr. Moony" says for him to keep his abnormally large nose out of other people's business. "Mr. Prongs" says that he agrees with Moony and that Snape is an ugly git. "Mr. Padfoot would like to register his astonishment that an idiot like that ever became a professor."

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How does 14-or-however-old-Hogwarts-student Sirius (Mr. Padfoot) know that Snape became a professor? I would like to throw into the pot that the Marauders Map could possibly work in a similar way as Tom Riddle's diary (meaning that, if Harry catches on, he could have conversations with Sirius, Lupin from a distance, or possibly even James)

I honestly don't know if I'm on to anything or not... but it just seems to me that the Map works the same way as the preserved memory in the diary, and if Harry needed to, he could call on "Mssrs. Padfoot, Moony, Wormtail and Prongs"

2. When Snape suggests to Lupin that Harry got the map direct from the manufacturers, I believe Lupin is truly terrified. I mean, think about it. If Snape is right, the "manufacturers" are James (dead), Peter ("dead"), Lupin (obviously knows he didn't give Harry the map) and Sirius (convicted murderer, looking for Harry)

The line about how the mapmakers would have wanted to lure Harry out of school... at first (and second, third, fourth, eight, twenty-third) glance, this looked like he was just kind of describing the personalities of (especially) James. It's mentioned several times that James would have been disappointed if his son hadn't broken a few rules.

But I think Lupin was putting two and two together at that point and realizing that Sirius would DEFINTELY have wanted to lure Harry out of school, to kill him. Granted, that's not the case, but Lupin, along with everyone else, believes Sirius killed Peter and 12 Muggles, so he would believe the story about Sirius "leaving information about the castle lying around" to lure Harry out of Hogwarts to kill him.

Does Lupin think of the possibility that when Sirius enters the castle twice that once he got into Filch's cabinets and reconfiscated the map and left it lying around?

3. Just kind of a side note, a hint to back up what we already know about Lupin...

He is truly ticked off about Harry sneaking out. I would imagine he was having to really fight down anger at the time he says that Harry's "parents gave their lives to keep him alive. A poor way to repay them - gambling their sacrifice for a bag of magic tricks."

This is definately a clue to the fact that Lupin and James were very very close friends. He's quite angry that Harry is not taking the death of his friend too seriously.

[Enchanter]

I was just reading PoA and was just about to post this ame theory. the only problem is that snape tells the map he is a professor

[Athena Appleton]

oh I know... I wrote this at about three o'clock in the morning, so I wasn't thinking completely clearly, but here's my thoughts about that...

I know Professor Snape tells the map that he's a professor, but it's still Sirius's personality registering and responding to that information... so if Harry did a little bit of background explaining to the map, could Sirius, Lupin, and his dad (I'm not mentioning Wormtail because I don't think he'd really want to speak to Wormtail) respond back to him? I mean, to someone who has no one, it's SOMETHING... Like, he could tell the map that he's Harry, what's been going on, and the younger mauraders could respond back... yeah, they'd be however old they were when they made the map, but it's something Harry could have...

[Emma'I'm a real witch']

Athena, once again a magnificent theory!!!

I dont think the marauders map has ever been explored completely. I always thought why didn't Harry just talk to the map as opposed to using it.

[Evil Wizard Petting Zoo]

Good theory! Maybe Harry will smarten up and realize he can talk to all them again!

I was just reading PoA and was just about to post this ame theory. the only problem is that snape tells the map he is a professor

Yeah, but even so, the memories are preserved inside so they can still think and write to Harry.

[highsorcerer]

I somehow doubt it, the insults were used to conceal the true purpose of the map from somebody trying to pry the secrets out of it. That's probably the extent of it's artifical intelligence.

[Athena Appleton]

ahhh, I know, it's not one of those theories I'm really dogged about... I mean, I would love to see Harry have some kind of communication with Sirius or James, even if it's something like befriending a map with their 14-year-old personalities in it... *shrug*

the thing is, we don't know what would happen if someone tried "talking" with the map without trying to find out what it was to get someone in trouble...

But something that's always bugged me is how do Fred and George know to touch the tip of their wands to the map and say "I solomnly swear that I am up to no good" to get it to appear, and say "Mischief managed" to erase it? I was thinking, what if they did what Snape did (touched it and asked it to appear) and the marauders actually told them how to work it, after a short "conversation" when they realized that Fred and George were as mischievous as they themselves were? I mean, it just doesn't seem likely that they would think to touch the tips of their wands to it and say "I solomnly swear that I'm up to no good" without some little hint...

[Ferrus]

I think that the map has a kind of AI that helps it protect itself from untrustworthy people and help people that the map (and therefore the Marauders) find that can be let on the secret. I think it sort of works like the magic mirrors that tell you if your shirt need ironing but would be no use to give tips on cooking.

My point is that the marauders (however brilliant they may have been) probably didn´t put their FULL personalities in the map, only the sufficient "intelligence" for the map to be able to tell friend from foe, you might say. Thats how F&G found out, I doubt that they could have dnoe it otherwise...

[highsorcerer]

That's probably good reasoning. Fred and George might have tried to get the map to talk, and when asked who they were, then, if they admit they stole it out of Filtch's office, the maurader's AI would have kicked in to help another generation of troublemakers.

[Herminny]

I get the impression the F and G are pretty smart, and when they want to do something or find something out then they put their full potential into it. If they don' really care then..... well the 3 owl thing happens.

But they probably had to get some sort of help from somewhere.

What I wan't to know is how the map got confiscated. It would be so interesting to read books about James Potter and his adventures

[Alice I]

1. Athena, I like your theory a lot. I find it very plausible.

2. I agree with all those who think that the map has a sort of AI placed on it by the manufacturers. This is the same principal behind the Sorting Hat.

3. The one thing I don't think would happen is Harry being able to have even a rudimentary conversation with his dad or Sirius using the map. I do think that Fred and George figured out the map's workings with help from the map, but again I think that was the AI in the map determining that F&G were OK I would love to see Harry speak to his God Father again and the most logical way that I can think of for that to happen is to have a portrait of Sirius show up in book six.

[Groo]

i agree with the AI part. i personally think that the only purpose of those responses was to make us all laugh and there wasnt any ulterior motive to it , like their personalities being in the map or anything else

but again , Rowling never fails to amaze us with the way she connects things !! who would have thought that she would use a random joke that dumbledore cracked at the Yule Ball and convert it into the Room of Requirements which has such a major role to play in the 5 th book!

[Athena Appleton]

yeah... like I said, I don't even know if I believe this theory. It's just something that crossed my mind.

I read something while I was working my way through PoA again that would discredit this theory anyway... But that is based on another theory that says that memories preserved in books/maps, etc. alter the memory of the older person... Like, Voldemort as we know him now would have other memories of Ginny writing to him, telling him about Harry, the fight between Harry, the baselisk and Tom Riddle down in the Chamber, etc. If I'm right about this theory (and I don't know if I am or not) then it wouldn't be the same kind of magic in the map, because in the Shrieking Shack, Harry or Hermione mentions Snape, Sirius asks what Severus has to do with it, and Lupin has to tell him that Snape's a professor. And I've confused myself... it all makes sense in my head, though... now, where did i put that pensieve... *goes off looking for it*

[Ferrus]

Like, Voldemort as we know him now would have other memories of Ginny writing to him, telling him about Harry, the fight between Harry, the baselisk and Tom Riddle down in the Chamber, etc

What????? Could you elaborate a bit more on that one??

[Athena Appleton]

hahaha, I can try, but it's one of those things that makes perfect sense in my head, but when I try explaining it, it comes out all jumbled...

Okay. First, the way we know it really was.

When Tom Riddle was sixteen, he preserved a memory in his diary. When Harry was a year old, Voldemort disappeared for a long time, but still had the memories anyone would regarding his past and his life. Somehow, Lucius Malfoy got the diary and slipped it to Ginny, who confided in it, fed the memory her soul, got bewitched and set the baselisk on the mudbloods of the school, eventually went into the Chamber herself, and Harry followed her. Tom Riddle and Harry had the conversation, Harry fought the baselisk, and killed the Tom Riddle memory.

Now, did these events alter the memory Voldemort as we know him today has of being sixteen years old? Does he remember Ginny, Harry, opening the Chamber again, etc. in addition to his original Hogwarts memories?

If he does, then my theory about the map must be incorrect, because if it's the same magic, then Sirius would remember learning (as Mr. Padfoot in the map) that Snape is a professor.

So one of my theories is wrong, and I haven't a clue which one... the altered memory theory or the diary/map theory...