James and Voldie...

[Holly Golightly]

Okay, so, assuming that people here have read the book, we now know why Voldie tried to kill Harry. It was because of the prophecy. We know that he killed Lily even though he didnt' have to, because she was trying to protect Harry. So... why did he kill James? What was the motivation behind that one?

I still believe that Voldie did not kill James on the night that he killed Lily and tried to kill Harry. the memory harry saw fromt he dementor would ahve included James otherwise I would think. The fact that it just says a man's vioce is very suspicious to me.

I also think that if he didnt' kill James on that same night, not alot of
people are aware of it. Otherwise like for example, DD would have told Harry at the end of OOTP when he told him everything else.

But still, what night he died on is not entirely the point here. The qn I'm ciruois about is, Why did he have to kill James at all? Is was only Harry he needed to kill... Was is just for the fun of it? Revenge against something James did? Irritation for fathering Harry, who could possibly lead to his downfall? Maybe so that he coudlnt' have any more children at the end of July?

Unfortunally, right now I cannot think of any better theories for this, but I would assume that others will put there theories as to what they think here, which is why I posted this qn in the Theories section.

Holly

[DrkSphere]

Okay, so, assuming that people here have read the book, we now know why Voldie tried to kill Harry. It was because of the prophecy. We know that he killed Lily even though he didnt' have to, because she was trying to protect Harry. So... why did he kill James? What was the motivation behind that one?

I still believe that Voldie did not kill James on the night that he killed Lily and tried to kill Harry. the memory harry saw fromt he dementor would ahve included James otherwise I would think. The fact that it just says a man's vioce is very suspicious to me.

I also think that if he didnt' kill James on that same night, not alot of
people are aware of it. Otherwise like for example, DD would have told Harry at the end of OOTP when he told him everything else.

But still, what night he died on is not entirely the point here. The qn I'm ciruois about is, Why did he have to kill James at all? Is was only Harry he needed to kill... Was is just for the fun of it? Revenge against something James did? Irritation for fathering Harry, who could possibly lead to his downfall? Maybe so that he coudlnt' have any more children at the end of July?

Unfortunally, right now I cannot think of any better theories for this, but I would assume that others will put there theories as to what they think here, which is why I posted this qn in the Theories section.

Holly

What I remember is that Voldemort DID kill James that night.. When Harry was practicing the "Expecto Patronum" spell, he also heard his father once.. saying "Lilly! Take Harry and run! I'll try to hold him off here!" Lilly then hid in the bedroom, and Voldemort came in... and you know the rest.

The reason James and Lilly had to go into hiding was that they were one of the leaders of the OotP... or at least some of the strongest. James and Sirius were some of the best wizards from the school, according to Snape's pensieve'd thoughts, and what everyone else has been saying about them.. and since they already evaded Voldemort three times, they must have ranked rather high on Voldemort's hit list.

[Holly Golightly]

Well, actually in Harry's memory, he heard a man's voice saying all that, and then someone stumbling from a room... Voldie wasn't hurt, so it had to be the man who owned the voice... Now, Voldie killed James, right, so how could James be stumbling from the room afterwards, if he was dead?

Also, the reason that they went into hiding was that Voldie was after them, not because they were involved in the OOTP. A spy in Voldie's operation told DD that he was after the Potters, but we havent' found out exactly why though. Maybe he was jut after Harry Potter, not all the rest

And again, we don't know anything about how they evaded him.. maybe they went after Voldie, not him after them, and only narrowly excaped, yet kept trying? But then, this might have been why Voldie wanted revenge... But also, if he did want revenge, how come he didnt' want to kill Lily? He would have wanted revenge against her too, no?

OOh, possibility!!!
Voldie found James, just walking aorund or something, by accident, captured him and tried to make him tell where Harry was, since we know that it was Harry that Voldie had to kill. James died in preference to giving up the info. Then Peter told Voldie where they were living, and Voldie went out there, and someone like Lupin was there aswell, with Lily. Voldie knocked Lupin (or whoever) out of the way (thus the stumbling from the room) tried to get to Harry, had to kill Lily, then couldnt' kill Harry!

How's them apples??? *hehehe*

[Claire]

I think that he just wanted to kill James because James was a threat to him, if he hadn' t killed James and just killed Harry, James would surely come back after Voldie. And anyways, I think that in Harry's memory, it just says 'a man's voice' because Harry hasn't ever heard James's voice before. Maybe now, after being in Snape's memory, if he hears it again he'll realize its his father's voice.

[DrkSphere]

Yea, I'm pretty sure James was at the house... I'd look up the exact quote but I know it's long and I've already abused the quote section too much *winks at someone in particular* hehehehe. I dunno, if they evaded him 3 times, he's probably rather p***d at them. And it was said somewhere that most of the killings were done for pleasure anyway. That, and Harry's parents probably stood to protect Harry, so he'd have to kill them to get to Harry. I don't think that just some random guy was hanging out alone in the house with Lilly, unless there was something ELSE going on that we don't know about.. hehehehehe.

[Lily]

I think Voldemort wanted to kill James because of the following:

1. They were on Dumbledore's side and as I believe Hagrid mentioned in book 1 that Voldemort knew they would never go over to V's side. Voldemort had an incentive to get rid of as many people around DD as possible.

2. They were in the OoTP and Voldemort had an incentive to get rid of the people fighting against his rise to power.

3. Lily and James had already "defied him" or messed up his plans three times so he had an incentive to get them out of the way.

[highsorcerer]

Quite obviously, James is dead. He reappeared at the end of Goblet of Fire along with Lily (the last murders the wand performed). It's also quite obvious why Voldemort killed him; he, like Lily, was in the way of getting what he wanted (Harry dead). James fought a holding action and lost, then Lily gave up her life to protect Harry. I prefer the simple solution to this riddle.

[Holly Golightly]

DrkSphere, I've written the quote out in these sections tonnes already, but here it is again!!! *I hope no one is getting sick of me writing this!!! hehehe*

"White fog obscured his senses ... big, blurred shapes were moving around him... then came a new voice, a man's voice, shouting, panicking -
'Lily, take Harry and go! It's him! Go! Run! I'll hold him off - '
The sounds of someone stumbling from a room - a door brusting open - a cackle of high-pitched laughter -

"

I just think that it's interesting that it was noever confirmed that it was James... it made it seem like it, but never confirmed... and remember, JK has a tendency to turnt hese things around on us!!!

Also, mainly the bit that I cannot get over.. who was stumbling from the room is James was dead???

I dont' deny that Voldie killed him *the echo in GoF after all* I just don't think that it was then!

Also, if he killed James as a revenge thing or whatever, why did he want to let Lily go... Very strange I think... very suspicious indeed!!!

[Nothlit]

Being new, I don't know if this has been discussed on these forums before, but...when Harry and Voldemort's wands were dueling each other at the end of GoF, and the people Voldemort had killed were coming out of his wand as ghosts or whatever, in reverse, James came out first, then Lily. Unless JKR messed up, this means James was killed after Lily, which fits in okay with the possibility that the voice telling Lily to take Harry and go might not have been James at all, although I wonder why anybody else would be hiding out with them, since their hiding place was being kept secret by Pettigrew (or so they thought).

[ElvenMist]

hmm. this is sort-of related, but i was wondering what James' and Lily's jobs were for the Order. I mean, we're never told what professions they went into. Were they aurors, or did they work for the MoM? Because I think that would be an important key to figuring out why Voldie came after all of the Potters...

[Holly Golightly]

Nothlit: Hrmm, you have one of the hard cover editions, hey? The ones where James came out of Voldie's wand are a mistake, JK fixed it later on so that Lily comes out first, which is why I think that he killed James something like the day before, or the morning before... whatever, sometime before he killed Lily. not at Godrics Hollow.

Sonkem: I sitll think that they worked in the Department of Mysteries... I'm probably wrong, but I think that they did!

[Neo]

Holly, one question, why to Sonkem?

Yes, James dies first, then Lily. So Lily comes out first.

And Holly, really James was killed just a minute before Lily. The quote explains it, James warns Lily, then Voldemort enters the room (that is the stumbling) kills, and while laughing opens the door where Lily is.
Since James tried to stop him, it is obvious he had to kill him, but Lily didn't attacked him (as James surely tried) so therefore Voldemort didn't wan to kill her if they were not in a duel. So he asks her to move, so he can kill Harry, and but has to kill her, which is what saves Harry.

[Holly Golightly]

Sorry ElvenMist, I mean you!!! I guess it's just because you both have skecthed pics... (and I'm really sleepy!!!)

Neo: we dont' know that it was james voice, nothing proves that indefinately... you are just assuming that it is... also, why would voldie be stumbling? I sitll think that it was Lupin, or someone else like that that was there with Lily... and why wasnt' a second flash of green light mentioned???

[Neo]

Why a second, the dorr was closed, the light that killed James couldn't be seen, then maybe the stumbling is James body hitting the floor.

If it was Lupin the one that was in the house, he would have tol DD by now, no?

[HuffleDuck]

Yes i agreed james died the same night Lily did...Voldy says so himself when he face to face with harry again in GoF... The thing is why kill James but not Lily? He can spare her but she chose died in order for the ancient spell to work and also Voldy never spares anybody. The only answer DD didnt answer is why kill James too?