Spinner's End septology clue

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Do you think Snape was telling the truth in Chapter 2?

No, this is some clever ploy he and DD made up
9
36%
Yes, he's been evil the whole time
5
20%
He told part of the truth
11
44%
 
Total votes : 25

Postby Dutchess42 » Wednesday 10 August 2005 4:18:07am

Person1 wrote:
Dutchess42 wrote:It seemed like it took him by surprise.



To whom do you refer to, Snape or DD?

If its Snape, yeah, he was told about it after it started

As for DD, well, if Snape was evil, he'd have no prior knowledge, but if he wasn't, and told DD, well then i would have to say that he had no prior notice to when the attack was (same w. Snape because he got up there only as soon as he heard bout it, and seemed suprised.)


The antecedent of my "him" was Snape. Took Snape by surprise.
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Postby Snow_Crystal » Wednesday 10 August 2005 11:54:11am

What I mean is this potential situation

Snape made unbreakable vow to kill DD if Draco failed. If Snape failed to do this, he would die...

If DD made Snape make an unbreakable vow with DD to kill DD, then again if Snape failed to do this, he would die.

I am suggesting that Snape did not want DD dead and would have preferred to die himself...i.e. backed into a corner he had no choice

By the way, on the Occlumens, Leglimens thing, Draco had been learning Occlumency from Bella as Snape tried to use Leglimens on him to work out what he was doing after Slughorns Party
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Postby Dutchess42 » Wednesday 10 August 2005 2:41:36pm

Snowy wrote:
By the way, on the Occlumens, Leglimens thing, Draco had been learning Occlumency from Bella as Snape tried to use Leglimens on him to work out what he was doing after Slughorns Party


Oh man, I don't remember that at all. I'm a terrible reader first time around :(
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Postby Fantasy girl » Wednesday 10 August 2005 2:55:01pm

wow, maybe snape did have a hint or decency in him. i still think he wanted to kill dd :evil:
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Postby Snow_Crystal » Wednesday 10 August 2005 3:22:06pm

Dutchess42 wrote:Oh man, I don't remember that at all. I'm a terrible reader first time around :(


I was quite disappointed that it wasn't as thick as OOTP!!! So I promised myself that I would read this one more slowly!! It kind of went a bit wrong towards the end though because my heart was racing with all the exciting things going on!!
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Postby Person1 » Wednesday 10 August 2005 5:00:18pm

Snowy wrote:By the way, on the Occlumens, Leglimens thing, Draco had been learning Occlumency from Bella as Snape tried to use Leglimens on him to work out what he was doing after Slughorns Party


Heh, just read that 2 and was about to post it, pg 322 U.S. version.
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Postby Lelie » Wednesday 10 August 2005 5:00:50pm

Snowy wrote:If DD made Snape make an unbreakable vow with DD to kill DD, then again if Snape failed to do this, he would die.

I am suggesting that Snape did not want DD dead and would have preferred to die himself...i.e. backed into a corner he had no choice


i don't think so snowy. if snape had preferred to die instead of dd, all he would have had to do was NOT kill him. then dd would still be alive and snape would be dead. but otherwise, i still HOPE that snape isn't bad. i just can't quite work out how he isn't.
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Postby Dutchess42 » Wednesday 10 August 2005 7:22:46pm

Lelie wrote:
Snowy wrote:If DD made Snape make an unbreakable vow with DD to kill DD, then again if Snape failed to do this, he would die.

I am suggesting that Snape did not want DD dead and would have preferred to die himself...i.e. backed into a corner he had no choice


i don't think so snowy. if snape had preferred to die instead of dd, all he would have had to do was NOT kill him. then dd would still be alive and snape would be dead. but otherwise, i still HOPE that snape isn't bad. i just can't quite work out how he isn't.


At this point I am agreeing with Snowy - believing that DD made Snape stick to his strategy - I'm thinking that's what they were arguing about.

I wonder if Snape would have been able to save DD from the poison anyway?
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Postby Fantasy girl » Wednesday 10 August 2005 7:59:35pm

well he is supposed to be a great potions master, he may have, but i still think he is bad
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"Spinners end"

Postby Amythest » Wednesday 10 August 2005 9:05:15pm

Personally, I'm seeing the whole "spinners end" to mean that the spinner has reached the end of his thread. Id est (latin, anyone?...IE), over the past 16 plus years Snape has been spinning a delicatley woven veil of lies and deciet that he wears for everyone. Part of the reason he is able to do this so well is because there are very few people to whom he has to respond to. He only tolerates DD interogating him, and that hasn't happened for years. The infrequent refresher-loyalty-questions allow snape a good deal of time to decide how he would like to constrew the informaiton to his best liking, as well as what would be most reasonable.
~Remember, in PoA, he immediatly creates this fantastical account of the might in which he is the clear and utmost hero (despite H,H, R and S being eyewitness accounts to an entirely different story)...a story he would be hard pressed to repeat once the addreneline calms down. This shows that he has a flair for story telling and an ambition for glory...more on that later.~
The story he tells to voldermont could be an entirely different one for all we know, it seems that the death eaters dont conspire amoungst themselves and voldermont doesn't seem like one to swap stories over a vat of butter beer. Even better, there is no one else playing both sides, so who's to catch him on inconsistancies?
However, the foul fiend is foiled when fate comes knocking at his door in the form of two death eaters...and no offense, but if any DE seems likely to gossip, high class women do fall into a slightly more likely category. Worse, both women have connections to the Order, with Bella's potential house being the HQ...in the wizarding world, walls (pictures) can talk.
So he must give them his tale, and he must convince them of his loyalty to vold. He does this quite well, and would have carried on just fine except that narcissa really diddnt give a damn about all that, she just wanted to protect her son. Snape is truly cornered and to give an appropriate performance, he must consent to the unbreakable vow.
****As for sides, I kinda feel that for snape there is no right or wrong, he just wants to win, so he set himself up for the double spy thing so that he would be valuable and powerful to both sides. FOr him, the ends of winning justily whatever means it takes, which is why he can lay both sides so well.
....as for that thing that may have made DD trust him...i cant help but wonder if volde overstepped his boundries when trying to get snape in the begining and created a major reason for vengence...say, death of the wife that never could be? would explain why he is all sulky, bitter, and alone all the time.
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Postby crystallised_pineapple » Wednesday 10 August 2005 9:14:28pm

yeah i'm slowly leaning towards the idea that snape was simply playing both sides telling them as little as possible to get away with things, nd when it came to an actual place where he HAD to choose he simply chose the side which looked stronger in the moment....

although i'm not actually sure if even i believe this theory i'm just getting so confused...
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Postby Tanuki » Thursday 11 August 2005 2:05:05am

He did it for Narcissa! I know he's an evil double dealing git, but he might be doing this stuff for Bella!
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Postby Dutchess42 » Thursday 11 August 2005 2:09:34am

the foul fiend is foiled when fate comes knocking
:grin: Making Frank Fenton furious?

He did it for Narcissa! I know he's an evil double dealing git, but he might be doing this stuff for Bella!

Why for Bella, Tanuki?
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Postby Tanuki » Thursday 11 August 2005 2:27:01am

Wrong name... Narcissa, he did it for Narcissa!!! He treats Draco way too much like a son
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Postby Dutchess42 » Thursday 11 August 2005 2:46:17am

Tanuki wrote:Wrong name... Narcissa, he did it for Narcissa!!! He treats Draco way too much like a son


I was going to say that Draco looks a lot like his dad ... but that's in the movies :)

JKR has said in interviews that it astonishes her that people would think Snape could love.

But that doesn't mean he couldn't father a child.

Is that what you're thinking?
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