A death in HBP

[*Lily*]

I've just thought of something. After DD dies it will probably be snape that gives Harry his last little nudge to kill Voldemort.

This went from a discussion on who might die in HBP to Harry and snape's relationship which I have made this topic before...

I have heard the theory that a Weasley might die. It can't be Percy because he hasn't been redeemed yet. I'm not sure if Bill and Charlie will have much of an impact. It can't be Ron. That would be bad. Molly? Arthur? The twins? any theories here?

[Just Mom]

I wondered about this too. I'm thinking someone on the fringe. Not someone we're heavily emotionally attached to but still someone we know. (i.e. we weren't very attached to Cedric Digory but a lot of us were sad to see Sirius go.) Maybe one of the Weasley's, Charlie or Bill, Seamus Finnegan, possibly Arthur Weasley. I don't think it will be Molly, a lot of us will be very upset about that! (the moms) Maybe one of the other professors? McGonagall? I'm just not sure. I can't think of anybody quite "ready" to die that's an integral part of the story except DD and I'm still skeptical he'll go in book 6.

We haven't considered any of the "bad" wizards yet. They might be included in the deaths too.

[Mistress Siana]

Hm...I think we have to free ourselves of the idea that someone's story has to be (literarily) finished before he dies. Sirius's wasn't either, and he also was expected to reach a level of mutual respect with Snape. JKR herself said more than once that she wants to present death the way it it, leaving gaps, open question and a lot of things unsaid. No Hollywood-like holding hands or last confession of love or whatever. Sirius's death was only possible because he was the person Harry cared most about and because Harry was the person he cared most about, but neither of them ever lost a word about it. Its so characteristic for humans that they tend to keep their feeling for themselves until it's too late and JKR does a very good job portraying this. I'd certainly credit her with killing Percy of without redeeming him first. You might call me cynical, but JKR, to a certain extend, is cynical, too.

Another question: A main character has to die, but what can be considered a main character? I actually wouldn't call Percy, Bill or Charley Weasley that way, nor would I think of Seamus or the Creevys as main characters. As for the "evil" ones, I still stick with Lucius.

[thestral]

as for the snape and harry development, i think that it going to become less adverserial, and more like mutual respect between them. but the only way for this to happen is for something to happen like a bonding thing(like hermione/ron/harry fighting troll united them) that isn't going to make them best friends or even like each other but respect and understand each other. i think it'll be something to be with snape's spy stuff, some set of circumstances that (although they will have to confront their issues first)they will have to work together and help each other. united they stand divided they fall stuff. predictable yes but i think there will have to be a point where everyone unites for a common good which is of course what the order is for.

as for the dumbledore dying will give harry the anger to kill voldemort theory i think it will definitly be the defining action but it will take time. because when harry tried to do the cruciatius curse on bellatrix after she killed sirius it didn't work because it was 'righteous anger'. it won't be a 'grrrr you killed dumbledore BANG, voldemort's dead moment' once again it will be the room of light/love thing. and i think that maybe when dumbledore dies and he will he will leave clues and knowledge that will help harry, because dumbledore knows so much more but can't say everything it's stuff that needs time to come out so i think that dumbledore when he dies will leave some way to help or tell harry something important.

and of the weasley's i think it would have to be percy because well i can't see any other weasley dying. and the very unfinished death of sirius has taken away my optimism that before any character dies there is some sort of resolution. she not that sort of tie everything up in a nice, neat bow sort of writer i think she leaves things ambiguous deliberatly including death scenes. no hollywood deaths. so although percy will have to acknowledge his family were right in some way there won't be any family reunion i think they're all too proud for that and percy sees things in black and white that's his personality; so i can't see him going back on what he has said and done now. he'll still see his family as vigilantes who refuse to abide by the ministry rules. he loves the ministry more than his family. i think that's been made clear by JKR. he's been totally unwavering and i think it's been building since the start that percy would turn because he always prioritised rules over people even when a prefect. i always wanted to like him cos he was a weasley but you could never really warm to him so you just pushed your doubts about him to the side cos you thought, 'he'll be okay he's a weasley'. yup percy is gonna have to die and remember mrs weasley's boggart? her dead families bodies? foreshadowing or too obvious?

[Just Mom]

[quote]Hm...I think we have to free ourselves of the idea that someone's story has to be (literarily) finished before he dies. [quote]

Well maybe yes, maybe no. It's true that in "real life" many deaths do not have a hand-holding/Hollywood ending where all questions are answered and all fractured relationships are mended and so forth because the death occurs so unexpectedly or choices to redeem the relationship are not made. At the same time, it is also true that just as many deaths, considerably more in fact, DO have some resolution of life and mission and relationship before they occur, even in very young people regardless of whether there was some prior warning before the death occurred. It would be perhaps unrealistic to assume that JKR will write every death using the same formula. I expect we will see some characters die according to their time and completion of storyline just as we'll see some who die too soon.

Where there is life, there is hope.

[*Lily*]

as for the dumbledore dying will give harry the anger to kill voldemort theory i think it will definitly be the defining action but it will take time. because when harry tried to do the cruciatius curse on bellatrix after she killed sirius it didn't work because it was 'righteous anger'. it won't be a 'grrrr you killed dumbledore BANG, voldemort's dead moment' once again it will be the room of light/love thing.

This is exactly my point, Threstral! This is why Dumbledore has to die in the 6th book. It will give Harry time to hate Voldemort with out it being riteous anger, It will give him time to avenge him with out being willy nilly and getting himself killed.

As for Percy, perhaps he'll die rescuing someone from the order, thusly redeeming himself in the end.

[Mistress Siana]

Something's just come to my mind: According to JKR, she had to cry when she wrote Sirius's death. As far as I know, she hasn't said anything like that about this death...and personally, I think she would cry for Dumbledore. This might speak for Snape or a more"evil" character.

As for the Harry-Snape-realationship...if anybody wants to bet, I'll put all my money on the theory that the two of them WILL NEVER EVER improve their relationship. For the sake of fairness: 'All my money" is not very much.

[*Lily*]

I'll take that bet Siana. All my money also does not add to much. All I'm tryin to say is, maybe someday they'll recognize each other as equals.I also think she would cry over dumbledore but just because she didn't say that she did doesn't mean she didn't. Maybe she didn't want to give too much away. Maybe she'll bring it up later.

[Enchanter]

I agree with mistress siana. i think harry and snape will never get along and their realationship will remain the same. It would seem way to boring. People in life dont always get along and they fight. I also believe that dumbledore will not survive this book. In the last 3 books the story ends on a sad note. I believe that Half Blood Princes sad not will be dumbledores death

[Phinea Rogue]

I don't think that Harry and Snape won't improve their relationship too or that they'll become a little more civil to each other, but nothing more than that. And I've got this feeling that if there were only one person to survive all this, it would be Snape. I know that being a spy is dangerous, but so far he's never really been shown as someone taking risks, he seems very catious (sp) and ... maybe he's like what Phineas Nigellus describes the Slytherins are (saving their skin first).

[Just Mom]

I think the possibility that Snape and Harry DO improve in their dealings is more of a possibility than we think so far. Again, JKR likes to gently teach, and one good lesson in life is that sometimes people we think are our enemies and have nothing to offer us at all, turn out to be very valuable later on...to the point where we can at least appreciate them more. That would be beneficial to both Snape and Harry.

Secondly, I was watching again the other night, HP POA and having seen the interview section, JKR does say there are "clues" in the movie that are not in the books. One thing I noticed is the scene where Snape emerges from the shrieking shack and begins to berate the trio of friends (Harry, Ron and Hermione...) and especially Harry because Harry had attacked him earlier. When Lupin, in werewolf form, starts to attack, Snape faces Lupin and stretches his arms out to shield the students, even Harry whom he despises as far as we know. To me that might be a hint of something to come later. That was, "the right thing to do" as a teacher especially...protect the students. Other wizards wouldn't have done it. Snape did.

[Hagger 9003]

Ive been thinking, an i reckon that snape will probably die. him and harry might just reconcile at the end, and snape might stop hating harry. i do think that harry now at least understands snape, cos of the pensieve, and i remember reading a thread on this. however, it would have to be a pretty big thing for snape to like harry. maybe the reason that DD trusts snape will have a part in it. anyway, i reckon that harry and snape will at least become allies in the war on voldemort. i think that this will bring together many witches and wizards. remember all the talk about unity at the end of GoF and OotP (sorting hat song). maybe ppl from slytherin and Gryfindor will unite doesn't sound very likely, i kno, but maybe that will be a big part of fighting LV at the end, u kno, "united we stand,divided we fall".

wow, this is pretty off-topic. sorry

[*Lily*]

Ok guys... I have brought this up before and I bring it up again. This topic is about who is going to die in hbp not whether Harry and snape will like each other. I know I brought it up but can we get back on topic??? I made a topic on Harry and snape over the summer. Why don't we discuss this there?

please don't hate me...

[Mistress Siana]

I hate you! *Crucio*

No...sorry! I found a quote from JKR somewhere else on this forum:

Q. There’s an important kind of redemptive pattern to Snape
A. He, um, there’s so much I wish I could say to you, and I can’t because it would ruin. I promise you, whoever asked that question, can I just say to you that I’m slightly stunned that you’ve said that and you’ll find out why I’m so stunned if you read Book 7. That’s all I’m going to say.

Not intending to discuss the redemption pattern further, of course, I just guess that if something that important about Snape will be declosed in book 7, he's rather unlikely to bite the dust in book 6.

Something else: What about Tonks? She wouldn't have been introduced if she wasn't important somehow. The fact that she's an Metamorphmagus could be crucial, just imagine what she could do if she turned into Bellatrix? The girl's living a dangerous life, I tell you!

[Tanuki]

I'm with those who fear for either Ron or Hermione. Those two are all of Harry's emotional support... they're doomed