Why the conflict of the Potters and Snapes?

[Deedra Malfoy]

he came across as shy to me (snape) in the scene in OotP.

but, he was also smart, due to the fact on how much he was writing fo the OWLs. i get that ALL the time, because I'm smart. maybe they were jelous of each other: Snape wanted the girls and to be popular, james wanted to have a decent head on his shoulders.

Wow. did i write all that?

[Athena Appleton]

Athena-Coming from someone who is still in school I think it safe to say that I know a smidgeon more than you do about the popularity system in schools.

*takes a deep breath and counts to ten* Not necessary.

Occasionally, it takes someone who is not in the middle of a situation to be able to look at that situation objectively.

Also, the way things are in your situation may not be exactly how things are run in every other situation. I was pulling facts from the books, taking an objective look at personalities and working from there. Snape has given us several clues as to why he and James didn't get along, and James, Sirius and Lupin actually confirmed that Snape's views were correct, only James was able to grow out of being a teenager, but Snape didn't really grow out of his mentality, therefore causing what would probably have only been a schoolboy feud to carry over for years and years.

The cool kids have nothing to do with us lesser mortals, the mortals automatically hate the cool kids for being cool, and they have nothing more to do with each other apart from forced meetings where not very much is said and they just look anywhere but at each other while looking at them often enough to keep the teachers away.

I don't know if you've caught on yet, but the situation between Malfoy and Harry doesn't really seem to be a "cool kid" and "lesser mortal" kind of thing. Malfoy certainly considers himself superior to Harry (and most everyone else) and yet, he makes it a point to seek Harry, Hermione and Ron out and say and do things to anger them. That hardly sounds like the situation you just described.

Everyone is superior to Slytherins

According to whom?

Don`t you think he does handle things better than everyone else? Philosophers Stone-No-one else knew about it and when he told McGonnagall she dissmissed him, he went down because if he didn`t then Voldemort would have risen again. What would you have done?

OOtP-His Godfather was going to die, he tried to warn DD but he was in London. What would you have done?

Once again, you appear to be unable to look at things objectively.

Anyway if I could drag this thread back to the point

Why did they hate each other

I have to respond the same way my friend harrylover would... "That thread leads to nothing."

he came across as shy to me (snape) in the scene in OotP.

but, he was also smart, due to the fact on how much he was writing fo the OWLs. i get that ALL the time, because I'm smart. maybe they were jelous of each other: Snape wanted the girls and to be popular, james wanted to have a decent head on his shoulders.

I agree wholeheartedly about what you said about Snape being shy and being smart.

But I think what really irked Snape was that James was not only popular and had Quidditch talent, but that James was also so capable as a wizard. To Snape, it must have seemed quite unfair that James seemed to have it all, and that things seemed to come so easily to James.

After all, up until OotP, the three things we hear most about James was that he was good at Quidditch, he had a certain disregard for the rules, and he was a very talented wizard. Also, almost everyone who speaks about James speaks as though he was a good friend and a good person.

[harrylover]

I fully agree with you athena!! Our teachers always tell us to look at thinks objectively...and i think that works.

[Deedra Malfoy]

I like your thinking, Athena. And thank you for ageeing with me. That's a first,

[Dumbledores Master]

You continue to point out why Snape disliked James but nothing about the other way around.

I can only assume that the potions master in their time was a bit less vindictive than Snape and would only have given small "well done"`s because when I think of a Potions master I think about a quiet person and you have to admit Snape is quiet. So James wouldn`t really have known about him being superior in potions and I would assume he was a clever student because he and the other messrs became Animagi.

There are people in my school who are smarter than me and I harbour no feelings of resentment towards them and I think that goes for the entire student body.

Snape was probably a good student because he managed to get the Potions Master post and could probably get the DADA post if he wasn`t held back by DD.

I think that JK is modelling the school on the school situation in Britain.

When I said the stuff about cool kids and lesser mortals I was referring to Snape and James for Gods sake people when are you going to leave Harry and Malfoy out of this thread or at least my posts

The thing about "Everyone being superior to Slytherins" was based on Ron`s reaction to Malfoy saying he wanted to go into Slytherin and his disdain for them.

If you say that my post is completely pointless then I suggest that you leave the thread because all I wanted to do was to ask people about their thoughts for them hating each other.

[harrylover]

If you say that my post is completely pointless then I suggest that you leave the thread because all I wanted to do was to ask people about their thoughts for them hating each other.

Nobody said that your post is pointless...don´t be angry nobody wants to harm you...I just meant that athena said everything about snape not liking james...

i think james didn´t like snape because he was an outsider, he was strange and snape didn´t like james and he showed him that so why would james like him??

[Alice I]

Sirius and Lupin both said that thje big reason for James dislike of Snape was because what ever his (James) faults James hated the Dark Arts and Snape knew more curses coming into school than even the sixth and seventh years.

DM you need to calm down and stop taking everything so personally. This is a friendly forum and your angry outbursts are becoming quite annoying to read.
No one is out to get you or prove you wrong and you need to stop trying to direct other peoples thoughts.

[paintballdecoy]

DM you need to calm down and stop taking everything so personally. This is a friendly forum and your angry outbursts are becoming quite annoying to read.
No one is out to get you or prove you wrong and you need to stop trying to direct other peoples thoughts.

heed that warning

[Groo]

If you say that my post is completely pointless then I suggest that you leave the thread because all I wanted to do was to ask people about their thoughts for them hating each other.

eh?
so let me get this straight, you wanted to ask 'people' about their thoughts regarding your query, and when Athena replies, you ask her to leave your thread? doesnt she fall into the category of "people"?i think you should specify in your threads that only those people with opinions matching yours are allowed to post in your threads. otherwise i dont think you have any right to say to anyone "dont post in this thread". this is an open forum and a friendly one at that.

if you are trying to justify that you made the above statement due to the references of your post being "pointless", then i suggest you read again what you wrote instead of flaring up against any BaO member without reason.

[Nightcrawler]

Athena-Coming from someone who is still in school I think it safe to say that I know a smidgeon more than you do about the popularity system in schools.

Like Athena said, she is not in the middle of the situation, so although you have more day to day experience with the school popularity system, she is able to stend back and look at the situation objectivly.

Athena's posts are always well written, so I'm assuming that she went through school and has an accurate idea of how the popularity system works anyway. I doubt it has changed much at all.

The cool kids have nothing to do with us lesser mortals, the mortals automatically hate the cool kids for being cool, and they have nothing more to do with each other apart from forced meetings where not very much is said and they just look anywhere but at each other while looking at them often enough to keep the teachers away.

That last sentence confuses me. Nonetheless, it seems as though you are steriotyping here. You are labeling the "cool" kids as snobbish and self absorbed. You are labeling the "lesser mortals" as jealous and petty. This is especially shown when you say that the lesser mortals "automaticly hate the cool kids for being cool".

I consider myself to be a mortal, not a complete geek, but a mortal nonetheless, and I don't "automaticly" hate anyone. Have you ever wondered why the "cool" kids are popular? Some are popular because they are good looking. Some are popular becuase they are rebels. Some are popular because they treat everyone with kindness.

I try not to judge people based on what others think, and therefore I don't hate anyone purely because they may be popular. Personally, I'm on good terms with popular people and I'm on good terms with geeks. I think that what it all comes down to is maturity. Some people are immature and they will conform to whatever others believe. As one grows older, one realizes there is more to life than; "that guy is a loner, therefore there must be something wrong with him", in fact "that guy" might be a loner due to reasons you don't know about. He might happen to be one of the nicest people you have ever met.

Immatuity is something that most people will grow out of. You are right, there are people out there who hate others purely because they are jelous. I really do pity these individuals. But remember, this is not always the case. I am looking forward to books 6 and 7 because Harry is approaching the age where he will grow out of his judgemental nature.

Remember in OOTP, when Harry is avoiding Luna becuase she is different? At the end of the book, he sees other people picking on her and he feels ashamed that he judged her so early. JKR has shown us some real growth in Harry's character.

Everyone is superior to Slytherins

This is another stereotype that I hope will be broken in books 6 and 7. Are you saying here that one quarter of all wizards are jerks? I can understand why one may get that idea: the books are from Harry's perspective, and Harry is judgemental of Slytherins. He portays them as jerks, therefore the reader will probably interperet them as jerks.

I read on JKR's website that she intended to have a scene that involved Draco Malfoy and Whatsisname Nott. The scene didn't really fit anywhere in the books, so it was eventually cut completely, however had it been included, it would give us a better look at both Draco and Nott.

You will notice that Nott is not a part of Draco's gang. In fact he is quiet loner who is quite clever. Draco is a loudmouth who pretends to be clever. Nott's father is a Death Eater, therefore Nott is a pureblood wizard. Apparently the scene made Draco quite uncomfortable because he was forced to accept Nott to be his equal, both in terms of blood and brains. Nott is a very different character to Draco, so this must mke accepting Nott all the more difficult. Notice how Draco chooses to hang around stupid people (Crabbe and Goyle) so that he can appear clever.

Remember, the quality that defines a Slytherin is not meaness, but cunning. If Odysseus were a wizard, he would most deffinitly be sorted into Slytherin.

Malfoy and Harry met each other in Madame Malkins and there wasn`t much else to do but talk to each other.

Draco is a total jerk he deserves to be treated poorly until he chooses to behave differently. However, in this scene, Harry takes an immediate disliking to Draco because of Draco's pale skin and flat voice. Once again, this is an immature judgemental action on Harry's part. Draco makes a comment about Hagrid (calls him an oaf if memory serves me correctly), and this backs up Harrys feelings towards the other boy. Rather than repond with a polite "He's actually a nice guy once you get to know him," Harry challenges Draco, responding with a smug "I think he's brilliant".

OOtP-His Godfather was going to die, he tried to warn DD but he was in London. What would you have done?

I would have done what Harry did

There were plenty of other wizards that Harry could have gone to for help. Instead, Harry chose to act rashly and in doing so, endangered the lives of others and had some serious consequenses once the ordeal was over.

If my best friend was made prefect I know I would have been jealous of him

I can see where you are comming from, and I may feel a little resentful that my freind was chosen over me, however in the end he should be happy for Ron rather than jelous. Ron has always been in Harry's shadow, and this is finally his chance to shine.

[Athena Appleton]

wow

All very good points, Nightcrawler!

One thing that I think is very interesting about Harry's character, that you touched on a bit, is that he is judgemental to the same degree that most 15-or-16-year-olds can be (well, maybe a little younger... around 16 or 17, most of the kids in my schools were growing up a little and able to see things from a broader prospective), but he's very judgemental on two sides. If he doesn't like someone, nothing they do is right. If someone is his friend, almost everything they do is right.

Case in point: Harry saying that he thinks Hagrid is "brilliant." Hagrid is many things, but I don't think "brilliant" in any sense is one of those things. Also, when Hagrid becomes a teacher, it takes a long time before he'll admit, even to himself, that Hagrid ain't the greatest teacher, and the substitute is probably more qualified to teach.

btw, thank you everybody, for sticking up for me in here. it really meant a lot to me.

[Deedra Malfoy]

Heh, Dumbledores Master has never been to my school. I am constantly picked on, teased, and used because of my superior intelligence to my classmates, who wouldn't understand what i just wrote.

[Athena Appleton]

ehhh... okay...

[Deedra Malfoy]

Athena, he said something about smart kids at his school not getting picked on for being smart.... Nevermind.

[Athena Appleton]

I was just messin with ya...

Sorry if I hurt your feelings or anything, I assure you, I didn't mean to.

This thread has gone SOOOOOOOOO off-topic... well, it didn't make loads of sense to begin with...

Anyway...