Horcrux Counting

[Barny The Barn]

Hi Sunset

He lost his body that night but he didn't die because it was his body that was destroyed not his soul.

By the time he lost his body we can assume that he had already created these horcruxes

1. diary
2. ring
3. locket
4. hufflepuff cup
5. Something of Gryffindor or Ravenclaw

The night he tried to kill Harry, he tried to create number 6. (excluding the bit inside him) but because he failed to kill Harry he failed to create number 6. To create a horcrux you have to kill and cast a spell at the same time. I don't think he tried to create that final horcrux with Lily or James's deaths because at the time he didn't doubt that he would be able to kill Harry and he was more significant.

So we think (because DD said) that Nagini was made number 6 after he lost his body, and probably Nagini was made a horcrux when Wormtail found him - after all what happened to his wand? and how could he carry it without a body?

Don't forget he only had to split his soul 7 times. The 7th part of his soul resides in him and that will be the final bit to be destroyed.

I dunno if this makes sense, it's just what I gather from the books.

[SunsetG|rl]

I thought horcruxes was the explanation on how he survived...

But after all...What are horcruxes? And how do they work? I thought they were like this: If a part of you is killed, then you lose that bit of soul...But you still have one left in this world, so you can continue your life...

So that is why I supposed this was the explanation on how he had survived... The bit in him at the moment he tried to kill Harry died... But he still had pieces left. Probably one in the dark forest or something. (I believe that is where he said he had to live and suffer, before his come back.) So then one would have to be counted out as the one baby-Harry destroied. I don't know...But that's how my counting begun since I first read about horcruxes.

[Barny The Barn]

I always thought that the bit inside him could not be destroyed until the other horcruxes were destroyed. I got the impression that they don't get spent like the 9 lives of a cat theory.

I thought that, that night his body was destroyed by his rebounding curse but his soul survived because one or more of his horcruxes sustained him. I don't think one of them was used to replace the bit inside whatever he became that night.

[SunsetG|rl]

You're probably rigt... Never thought of it that way...

And I found another thing that might sustain your idea... This is from the hp-lexicon:

The disembodied Voldemort lurks deep in an Albanian forest, concealing himself from the Aurors still searching for him. The need to hide severely hampers Voldemort's efforts to gain the use of an effective body.

[Barny The Barn]

Yeah that's interesting.. I just finished reading all the books again last week and I saw the whole series in a whole new light this time round. I was looking for clarification on things particularly to do with LV losing his body. It was only this time that I realised that the horcruxes might not actually get used up.

JKR is quite remarkable in how much thought she puts into this stuff but I think that's because she knows fans like us will pick up on it!

[Scarlet Lioness]

Heya, Guys, I just thought I'd say this but I can't really be bothered to read the whole topic but...

You know in Divination, How they have those cards with like pictures and stuff...well the symbols are a cup, a sword, a locket and a wand.

Because Voldie was so connected with magic etc. Maybe he believed these symbols were the most magical symbols you can have, so Slytherins locket and Hufflepuff's cup have gone and then the sword Godric's, but he couldnt get his hands on it or there's a possibitlity the horcrux has gone...and then Ravenclaw's Wand??? Maybe Ollivander has it or something??? And Voldie went rumaging through the shop and then saw Ollivander...and took him or disposed of him or something...

[Arun]

Woah! I never noticed that!
That might be the hidden clue!
Good Job, Crookshanks!

[Scarlet Lioness]

Hehe, well just sorta popped up into my head last night...

[Tanuki]

...Like a certain wand sitting on a ratty cushion in the front window of olivanders... why didn't we see that sooner

[Scarlet Lioness]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking...

[darkcloak]

So what you're saying is that:

1. Ravenclaw was renown for charmwork
2. Lily is good at charms and very clever witch (hence her charm on Harry to protect him)
3. Lily somehow gains or is given the wand of Rowena Ravenclaw
4. Voldemort goes after Harry but is somewhat afraid of Lily's charmwork and the power of this 'famous' wand
5. Voldemort kills Lily and uses the death to make a Horcrux in her wand
6. Then Voldemort tries to kill Harry etc. etc.
7. After this happens Dumbledore (or some other character, maybe Hagrid) goes back to Godric's Hollow and finds the wand and sells it (on behalf of Harry) for an excellent price to a collector (aka Ollivander).
8. This huge sum of money is placed in Harry's bank account and the wand is kept in Ollivander's shop ("A single wand lay on a faded purple cushion in the dusty window", pp.63, PS/SS)
9. Voldemort returns and wants his horcrux back and also a better understanding of his and Harry's wand and thus takes Ollivander and the wand.

Very interesting.....

[Scarlet Lioness]

Or maybe, Ollivander just got the wand back when RR died and has kept it their for many generations and VM stole it from his shop when he abandoned it...or something like that, maybe he has just finished making his Horcruxes...

[Chimera]

There's another use for the wand too, Voldemort and Harry can't duel without priori incantatem happening. Voldemort needs an immensely powerful wand that does not have Fawkes's tail feather in it in order to bump Harry.

[SunsetG|rl]

But wouldn't that mean changing the wand. And I thought it was a "one wand for one wizard" relationship thing. And maybe when they break their wand they have to make an extremly simmilar one...Though a similar one as Harry's would be quite difficult to make. And Ron did buy a new wand after braking his in the second book.

But anyway, if either LV or Harry change their wand, I think we would lose part of the action

[Snow_Crystal]

For some reason, I think there's got to be something other than a wand to defeat the other and I can't really see LV getting a new wand - I dunno something just doesn't seem to ring true on this. I still don't believe that LV knows that Harry's wand has the same phoenix feather in it. Who would have told him? DD wouldn't have, nor Harry - I think that's why Ollivander fled (and I do believe he fled) - to avoid questions.

Ron inherited his first wand (but I can't remember who had it first - Percy?) and bought his second from Ollivanders. The first wand didn't choose him which is why it never performed well for him and in some wierd way, maybe the reason it broke wasn't that the Whomping willow got it but the fact that it chose to leave him? I dunno about that - maybe a little too wierd. The second wand he had must have chosen him though.

I thought that wands were snapped after the wizards passed on so more likely that RR's wand doesn't actually exist any more. I think the relevance of Lily being good at charms is only important in that Harry will use charms on LV in the final chapter.