For the last time people, Harry is NOT a Horcrux!

[draconeedsahug]

How on Earth could Harry possibly be a Horcrux? Harry is the only one with the power to destroy Voldemort because that is what the prophecy tells us. The prophecy DOES NOT concern Neville because Harry is the one Voldemort tried to kill.

Anyway, in order for Harry to destroy all of the Horcruxes, he would have to kill himself. Sure all of the Horcruxes would be destroyed but who does that leave to kill Voldemort? Hasn't the whole point of the prophecy been that Harry is the only one that can defeat him? So if Harry is dead and all the Horcruxes destroyed doesn't that just leave Voldemort open to make more and take over the wizarding world? The prophecy states only Harry has the power so why would JK make his scar a Horcrux?

Also, if Harry was a Horcrux, then Voldemort is pretty stupid right? He's spent all this time trying to kill Harry. Why would he try to kill Harry if Harry had a part of Voldemort's soul inside him? Sure it could be that Voldemort didn't mean to make Harry a Horcrux, it just happened when his Avada Kedavra failed but how much do we actually know about how a Horcrux is made. Not much but we do know it's a complicated bit of magic as Slughorn tells us in HBP. How's it gonna happen by accident?

I'd be happy to welcome any of your replies to prove otherwise. Let the debate begin...

[buddy]

If you were Voldemort, and you believed the prophecy that Harry Potter was the only one who could kill you, wouldn't you plant a horcrux in him as an insurance policy if in the event Potter does kill you. If Voldemort kills Harry, or vice-versa, as the prophecy indicates, based on the horcrux, Voldemort can always return.

I haven't read too much here on everyone's theory on this matter, but I wanted to pass along my theory.

- Voldemort was aware that he could not kill the baby Harry Potter due to the old magic.
- Voldemort did not cast 'Avada Kadavra' at Harry Potter but used casting it to plant the horcrux in Harry. There is no proof or witnesses that it was ever cast at Harry (or cast at all). It is only assumed true.
- The link between Harry and Voldemort can only be due to a soul link.
- The mark on Harry's forehead is assumed to be the mark of the 'Avada Kadavra' curse, but there is no history of the curse leaving a mark. THE MARK IS THE HORCRUX.

As the hints in the movies tend to be more blunt due to the limitation of dialogue, and interesting statement was made during the meeting of Harry and Voldemort at the end of GP:GoF. The quote was "I'm going to kill you Harry Potter, I'm going to destroy you." Two tasks were to be completed upon the demise of Potter.

Of course in the end it was Neville who the prophecy was based on, and who will ultimately kill Voldemort, but this is a different theory.

[Snow_Crystal]

Hi Buddy! Welcome to the Broomsticks and owls or BoA as we affectionately call it!!

I don't blame you for not wading through the hundreds of feeds on here as there are so many now. I do disagree with the Harry is a horcrux theory though.

I think LV wanted to use Harry's death to create a final horcrux but because he failed to kill (which is a requirement of creating a horcrux) the horcrux could not be created. It was clear that he wanted to kill Harry that night as he wanted to rid the potential threat, so if you want to kill someone why make them a horcrux to live on?

I also don't think he ever doubted that he would be able to kill Harry so I don't think he would have had the foresight to use Lily's death to create Harry as a horcrux. Add to this the fact that she could have lived if she had so chosen.

The theory Harry is a horcrux just doesn't add up to me. To create a horcrux:

You have to kill and utter an incantation to instill the bit of the soul you wish to transfer in an object at the same time as the death.

What I want to know is what object was he trying to make a horcrux and how did he try to do it. For me it's clear that the horcrux was never created as Harry lived.

Ooh I've just thought of something else but it sounds soooo obvious! Maybe when you create a horcrux, that bit of the soul you want to transfer has to pass through the person who will die to create the horcrux object.

Maybe this is how some of LV's powers passed to Harry? I don't know, it does sound very obvious but it does beg the question, what other than parceltongue was passed to Harry? (Sorry if that's been asked a hundred times elsewhere!)

[buddy]

Snow_Leopard, thanks for the welcome.

You have to look at the motives of why LV were creating the horcrux in the first place. The creating of several horcrux doesn't imply a confidence of succeeding, but instead instills”insurance" in the event of being defeated. If he created several horcrux before confronting Harry, he must have had some reluctance in his potential success. The idea of using the death of his greatest nemesis to create an object that would safeguard him from an untimely death is foolish.
One interesting element of Harry as a horcrux is that even if Dumbledore discovered LV horcrux plan, would he have killed Harry to assure that LV never comes back.
To use another quote from the GoF movie, "The boy who lived. How lies have fed your legend Harry. Shall I reveal what really happened that night thirteen years ago?"
One other possible occurrence is that LV created the horcrux before attempting to kill Harry.

[Snow_Crystal]

Hmm

I still don't buy it I'm afraid. Also Dumbledore (DD) would never have killed Harry to defeat LV.

By the way, Harry was advised by DD to destroy all of the horcruxes before going for LV. For me this says that DD did not believe Harry was a horcrux (after all how could he destroy himself) but he did believe that LV wanted to create a horcrux that night. Ok we can't take that for definite as this was only a DD theory but I think it's a good indication of where JKR was going.

On the GoF quote, the book handled this part of the saga much better I think than the film though it still does not answer the real questions that relate to that night.

What happened to the part of his soul he was trying to split? Why couldn't he kill Harry? What happened really to his body? Why was the house destroyed? Who is the other person that JKR says was there when it all happened? How did LV get his wand back from the ruins of the house? how did everyone else find out what happened?

I can't wait to find out!

[buddy]

DD wouldn't have killed Harry, which is precisely why he would make for a perfect horcrux.
Even if DD knew (or thought) that Harry was/could be a horcrux, he would still advise him to destroy all of the (other) horcruxes. Harry being a horcrux doesn't change the strategy to defeat LV, it just ultimately creates a difficult situation. Also if Harry knew he was a horcrux, and that he may need to die to forever rid the world of LV, he may not act rationally towards the task he needs to accomplish.

Unfortunately, we won't find out what actually happened for a while, but the time make good fodder to produce theories while we wait.

[cokeboy99]

Maybe this is how some of LV's powers passed to Harry? I don't know, it does sound very obvious but it does beg the question, what other than parceltongue was passed to Harry? (Sorry if that's been asked a hundred times elsewhere!)

I don't know that Harry had any other powers, so to speak, but it was their connection that was also forged that night. The one allowing Harry to see into Lord Voldemort's mind, and vice versa. That is my understanding, anyhow.

[cokeboy99]

I don't see Harry as being a horcrux for this reason:

Lord Voldemort knew he had to kill Harry, due to the prophecy. He didn't know he would mark him, or any of the rest of the prophecy. He was out to kill Harry that night, not make him a horcrux. If Harry was the only one who could stop him, why bother making him a horcrux? Because he didn't....he was trying to kill him, in accordance with the prophecy.

As far as the vast number of horcruxes made by Lord Voldemort, he is all about power. He wanted to do what no other wizard had done, something more evil than anyone else.....he made 6 horcruxes. His soul is in 7 pieces. This makes it vastly more difficult to finally kill him, as the horcruxes must be destroyed first.

[Snow_Crystal]

I don't see Harry as being a horcrux for this reason:

Lord Voldemort knew he had to kill Harry, due to the prophecy. He didn't know he would mark him, or any of the rest of the prophecy. He was out to kill Harry that night, not make him a horcrux. If Harry was the only one who could stop him, why bother making him a horcrux? Because he didn't....he was trying to kill him, in accordance with the prophecy.

Thanks Cokeboy! I'm glad I'm not the only one who believes he's not a horcrux. Anyhow if LV made Harry a horcrux wouldn't that have been like arming his enemy!

[Eol]

When was there an opportunity for LV to make Harry into a Horcrux? the first time he saw Harry he performed the Avarda Kedavra curse.
Also DD said it was unusual for a living thing to be used as a Horcrux in reference to the snake. So I don't think for a second it would be easy to turn a person into one.

[Mistress Siana]

Anyway, in order for Harry to destroy all of the Horcruxes, he would have to kill himself. Sure all of the Horcruxes would be destroyed but who does that leave to kill Voldemort? Hasn't the whole point of the prophecy been that Harry is the only one that can defeat him?

Have you considered that 'vanquish the Dark Lord' might not necessarily equal 'kill Lord Voldemort'.

Don't laugh at me too quickly, hear me out first.

I find the whole Horcrux business somewhat dubious. I mean, what exactly happens when a Horcrux is destroyed? Obviously, the object is destroyed, and the spell that binds the particular piece of soul to the object is broken too, but what happens to the soul? A soul is absolutely sacred, and the immortality of the human soul marks the foundation of about every major religion there is. JKR herself said in an interview that, yes, book 7 would be influenced by her being a Christian. Now, to suggest that a soul can be destroyed--worse even, to have it destroyed by as much as a bit of snake venom--would be blasphemious to an extend The Da Vinci Code wouldn't even dream of. Also, OotP made it pretty obvious that a soul does not die with the body, so why would it die with a stupid diary? Isn't it more logical that the pieces are still somewhere and that Voldemort's soul has to be repaired somehow before he can thoroughly die?

Now, consider this: We know for sure now that the power Harry possesses that will finally 'vanquish the Dark Lord' is love. Killing on the other hand is more than once referred to as the supreme act of evil; even Harry feels a moral dilemma with this when he first hears the prophecy. Love killing, how does that fit? And how does that work, Harry sending love waves or something? And can you possibly imagine Harry standing triumphantly over Voldemort's dead body, saying 'look, love did this?' What a message...sorry, I don't see that happening.

And here comes my slightly twisted theory; I already know you're going to hit me over the head with it, but I'll post it anyway.
Okay: Harry is a Horcrux, and the piece of the soul resting in him gets freed somehow, like the other pieces, and Voldemort's soul gets repaired. Now, this particular piece that was with Harry all the time, with Harry's stronger soul around, and thus it experienced Love, something Voldemort himself never did. So his soul is changed, different than before, because it knows love now, and only the lack of love was what turned him into that monster in the first place. The 'Dark Lord', the icon, is vaquished by love, but maybe the man, Tom Riddle, isn't. Okies, you may shoot me now. *g*

[buddy]

Another observation. It is a general assumption that LV cast an 'Avada Kedavra' at Harry Potter, which, in essence, ricocheted off of Harry and killed LV.
If this was the case, then during the priori incantatem, the original LV should have been regurgitated from LV's wand in between the occurance of the old man and Lilly Potter.
Since LV never appeared during this scene, one can only assume that he was not killed by an 'Avada Kedavra' from his wand.
This would conclude that LV was killed during the creation of last Horcrux (which became the mark on Potter forehead).

[Eol]

But the trademark of the Killing curse is the flash of green light, which dominates Harry's memory of his first meeting with LV. I don't see why at the very moment LV can rid the earth of supposedly the only person that can defeat him, he would choose instead to impart a piece of his soul onto them. LV didn't know that the spell would rebound, he thought he had won. He had just gotten past all the measures taken to hide the child from him and was certain he'd win. The Horcrux Harry theory doesn't work in this context.

[buddy]

A flash of green light could also occur due to the creation of a horcrux.
What if LV knew he was powerless to kill HP at that time.
If LV was that confident in his victory, why was he splitting his soul to create a number of horcruxes.
Again if LV killed LV, he would have appeared during the priori incantatem.

[Snow_Crystal]

I don't wish to be rude buddy, but I'm with Eol on this, please go back and read all the books again.

Where does it say that green light is associated with creating horcruxes? Also I think we know that LV did not kill LV, his curse merely destroyed his body not his soul.

LV's horcruxes were created to sustain his soul not to save him.

LV was not necessarily convinced of his victory and saw HP as a threat which is why he set out to kill HP.

LV did not foresee that his attempt would fail as he told us himself that he did not foresee the dark old magic that Lily used to thwart him. Also if he knew he was going to fail why do you think he tried in the first place?

There are so many gaps in the theory I'm afraid I'm still unconvinced.