Trelawny's Low-Key Prediction

[Nobby]

Does anyone remember in PoA, at christmas dinner when trelawny says

"When 13 dine together the first to rise are the first to die".

Harry and Ron both stand up together, although nothings happens at this point and everyone thinks that Trelawny is crackers!

However at Christmas in Ootp, 13 people dine together again at Grimmauld Place! Sirius is the first one to stand up at this diner and at the end of the book dies! Freaky eh! Was Trelawny's prediction correct afterall! i think it is and in that case either Harry or Ron will die (maybe both), before the series is up!

[Alice I]

Shame on you Nobby

Harry and/or Ron die!!! AAHHCCKK!!

Good pick up on the 13 dining thiong at Grimmuld Pl. I had not noticed that.

[sea-plunder]

wow i never noticed this at all... but i think maybe because harry and ron got up first together it may have cancelled out the effect well maybe...

[Athena Appleton]

Ya know, Trelawney is a hard character to follow, since she makes "real" predictions (the two prophesies), and she makes her offhand predictions (Neville's gran is ill, what Lavender dreads will happen, one of the Divination class will leave forever around Easter), and then she makes her superstition predictions (when 13 dine together, the first to rise is the first to die). Some of all of these have come true. Some haven't, some most likely won't.

I don't have the book in front of me, but:

1. Neville broke the cup.

2. Lavender's pet bunny died (granted, like Hermione said, she wasn't "dreading it")

3. one of the number left forever around Easter (granted, it wasn't interpreted properly, since she obviously thought, or hoped, someone would die)

4. Neville's gran is still kickin (one wrong prediction)

5. the entire class did not come down with a bout of the flu in second term, nor did Trelawney lose her voice (another wrong prediction)

6. So far, Parvati has no real reason to "beware" a red-haired man


I agree with McGonagall on this one: divination is a very imprecise branch of magic. I am impressed by the 13 dining at Christmas, and Sirius was the first one up, and Sirius died.

At one point, I had heard that Rowling said that none of the trio would die, but then in a recent chat, she made a little comment about "if Ron lives..." so I wonder if that means that Ron could die.

I don't think it would be Harry... if for no other reason then I wouldn't see how it could be done from a literary point of view (seeing as the entire story is told through Harry's eyes, how would the story finish if Harry dies?

[sea-plunder]

do you think the books would be worse with ron dieing or do you think they would be just as good ?

[Athena Appleton]

ahhh, I don't know... I personally don't feel like he'll die, period, but if he does, I don't think it'll happen before the very end of book 7. And since I have complete faith in Rowling to not just kill off his character without it following logically in the story, then I think it'll be all right.

[Ferrus]

Well, if JKR does NOT intend to write any more on Harry, she has to tie up all the lose ends by book 7, which I hope means that no-one is going to die at the very end.

[Evil Wizard Petting Zoo]

Good spot on the 13 dining at Grimmaud place!
I think JKR may have put that in there for all you smart folks that count the number of people eating so that now we'll all think that Harry and Ron are goners for sure.

[pandora315]

The thing about "When 13 dine the first to rise..." is that its not really a prediction is it? Its sort of a text book standard quote. LIke breaking a mirror is 13 years bad luck, or crossing a black cat is bad luck. I think that since it came true about Sirius its likely that it will again. Though it could also depend on interpretation. I mean, maybe Harry or Ron will die, or maybe one of them will be mortally wounded but then be saved by fawkes, or maybe one of them will just appear dead like when Mrs. Weasley saw Ron dead, don't know. But I think it'll come out true in some form.

[Jotomicron]

I have one thing to say: JKR is a genius!!! Who would remember to kill the first to stand up in a table of thirteen people, when she doesn't mention the number of people!!! (it's a bit confusing... I know... but I understand it... you don't need to!!!)

Anyway, Nobby... can you tell me the chapter this dinner is in?? It seems I can't find this Christmas Dinner!

[Nobby]

i'll have a look! i think its around the St Mungo's chapter

[Athena Appleton]

It's the chapter called "Christmas on the Closed Ward" , chapter 23. But I only count twelve people: Sirius, Harry, Molly, Bill, Fred, George, Ron, Ginny, Hermione, Lupin, Mundungus, and Mad-Eye. Arthur is at St. Mungo's. And it never says that Sirius is the first to rise...

In fact, it pretty much skips over the dinner, only mentioning that after dinner, the Weasleys, Lupin and Mad-Eye go to St. Mungo's...

Now, in the next chapter, the night before they go back to Hogwarts, there's another dinner...

Sirius, Harry, Arthur, Molly, Bill, Fred, George, Ron, Ginny, Mad-Eye, Lupin, Mundungus are there... still just twelve. And it's not mentioned if Sirius is the first to rise...

[AngelicS_89]

I have one thing to say: JKR is a genius!!! Who would remember to kill the first to stand up in a table of thirteen people, when she doesn't mention the number of people!!! (it's a bit confusing... I know... but I understand it... you don't need to!!!)

Anyway, Nobby... can you tell me the chapter this dinner is in?? It seems I can't find this Christmas Dinner!

Yeah,you're right JKR is a genius...

Athena you forgot Hermione so she's 13th,but still it really doesn't say anywhere that Sirius left first.

[Athena Appleton]

okay, yeah, in the dinner the night before they go back to hogwarts, there are 13... but then, at that dinner, it kinda reads like nobody's just sitting and eating, since Harry kinda roams from Sirius, to Mad-eye and Mundungus, to Ron and Hermione... *shrug*

Nobby, post and explain yourself! just wondering if I'm missing something...

[Aberforth]

I don't think it would be Harry... if for no other reason then I wouldn't see how it could be done from a literary point of view (seeing as the entire story is told through Harry's eyes, how would the story finish if Harry dies?

Read the start of Philospher's Stone. That isn't through Harry's eyes.